When to Pull Them

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I don't think the evidence is stronger than "try it, it might help and probably won't hurt" level, but there is some reason to believe that marigolds may deter some pests. But the problem is -- not all marigolds.

I've wondered whether the difference may have originated with David Burpee's production of scentless or low scent marigolds in the mid 20th century, as part of his campaign to get the marigold named our national flower.

I suspect that older varieties, and more strongly "marigold smelling" varieties, may be effective in some situations, while many newer (as in developed within the past seventy or eighty years) and lower scented marigolds may be mostly decoration.

There is one variety sold as "guardian marigolds" which may be an older strain -- or may just be an attempt to sell something to those looking for a varmint vanquisher. I have seed that I'm going to try sometime but haven't grown them as yet. (No evidence at all, I fear, that they repel voles.) But there were many varieties of older marigolds, some both smelly and decorative, some of them must still be around.

Interesting post, never thought about it. I will say that when I had the problem w/ the cat scat in my beds, he never did his "business" in the beds w/ the marigolds or lavender. Maybe coincidence? For some reason he used the only tomato bed that I did not plant marigolds in, and he did squat amongst the potato patch and onions.

I thought RKN just affected production and wasn't certain death. Seems awefully harsh to rip up the garden this time of year, just go with it and maybe do a hard till, solarization thingy, and plant a cover crop that deters at end the season early Sept. I don't see the reason to be rash, but then again........

I have read in several places about the "good" nematodes that you can order and supposedly combat the bad ones. A good vs. evil warfare in the trenches. Surprised nobody has mentioned the application and introduction. However, that is above my fund of knowledge currently. Maybe someone can chime in.......

I do know that a lot of diseases and bugs came from So. America when ships turned from sail to steam. The trip was shorter. Some even suggest that the common cockroach is not indigenous to the usa. In closing, please keep those fire ants down there.......

[My Foot Smells]

.........and then there is stuff like this that is the #1 nematode control.. ***guaranteed***

[AlittleSalt]

Here is one I found yesterday about good nematodes https://www.amazon.com/Million-Live-.../dp/B004BNOHZQ I looked and thought, "This must be a gimmick" but it's a thought to research.

If nematodes weren't already in the soil to begin with, I think I probably brought them in years ago when we used to buy tomato and pepper transplants. We did that from 2010 - 2014.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Jan (My wife) came home and read the two links I posted above in posts 16 and 23. We both think it would be better to pull all the main garden plants and solarize. The main garden is 45' x 45'. That would mean

1. Pulling all the plants and weeds.
2. Removing the drip irrigation system
3. Adding the rest of the huge oak leaf pile.
4. Mulch mowing the leaves.
5. Till the ground deep.
6. Reinstall the drip irrigation to use as needed.
7. Water in the soil
8. Cover with clear poly.
9. Solarize for the summer - June through September.

Would 4 mil poly be thick enough? Going with 6 mil jumps the price up a lot.

Does this sound like the way to go to solarize? I have never done this before and am open to your thoughts and suggestions.

This would be our first step in combatting the RKN.

Its not the poly thickness, but rather the seal. You want a moistened closed system, my clear bags around my Earthboxes are tied at the end, and knotted. Clear gets much hotter than black, Barb_Fl. did that experiment last summer. Clear will let some plants grow even in the intense heat due to the light getting through, but it will kill the nematodes.
Robert, if you put in a solid bottom on your beds, will they be able to have drainage?

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Here is one I found yesterday about good nematodes https://www.amazon.com/Million-Live-.../dp/B004BNOHZQ I looked and thought, "This must be a gimmick" but it's a thought to research.

If nematodes weren't already in the soil to begin with, I think I probably brought them in years ago when we used to buy tomato and pepper transplants. We did that from 2010 - 2014.

If they used potting mix rather than soil in the transplant pots, I think there were not likely to be nematodes brought in. They have been around for millions of years.

[AlittleSalt]

Marsha, yes, they would have drainage - even the raised beds I built 80' from the main garden without a bottom have drainage holes. Building raised beds is what I would like to do, but are more of a last resort for me because of the cost and there are termites in our main garden. I pulled two wooden stakes out of the ground that had termites on them the other day.

If cost wasn't so important, I would poor concrete slabs and build 4' x 30' stone planters. But I don't have that kind of money. It would be cool though.

I was looking at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng005 In particular, the sections on Cover Crops, Organic Amendments, and Soil Tillage and Root Destruction really caught my attention. This was the first site that mentioned the Soil Tillage and Root Destruction part. It makes since to get all the roots out as possible.

I know that site was meant for the Florida gardener, but right now, I'm trying to amass info that agrees with each other...without plagiarism of course.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Marsha, yes, they would have drainage - even the raised beds I built 80' from the main garden without a bottom have drainage holes. Building raised beds is what I would like to do, but are more of a last resort for me because of the cost and there are termites in our main garden. I pulled two wooden stakes out of the ground that had termites on them the other day.

If cost wasn't so important, I would poor concrete slabs and build 4' x 30' stone planters. But I don't have that kind of money. It would be cool though.

I was looking at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng005 In particular, the sections on Cover Crops, Organic Amendments, and Soil Tillage and Root Destruction really caught my attention. This was the first site that mentioned the Soil Tillage and Root Destruction part. It makes since to get all the roots out as possible.

I know that site was meant for the Florida gardener, but right now, I'm trying to amass info that agrees with each other...without plagiarism of course.

Robert, could you build your raised beds with concrete blocks? Termites wouldn't bother those would they? You can get them a lot of times from demolition of old buildings, no cost.

[JLJ_]

I've never had nematode problems -- at least not bad enough to notice -- but . . . had noted comments about them re other creeping critter varmints. Thought you'd probably search here, but here's a few links from idig that might be of use. My guess is that if you can make beneficial nematodes work you'll have more success with less work in the long run.

I noted that Marsha not only found the benefits of solarization short term, but that even containers could be easily contaminated by careless yard work scattering contaminated soil into containers.

There do seem to be people who use beneficial nematodes to control the root knot nematodes -- as well as many other unwelcome critters. As with many things, the secret to success seems to be to introduce enough of the right mix of beneficial nematodes and then keep your soil healthy (from a nematode's viewpoint) and they (and their children) will take over keeping the nasties in check.

Something else that sounds like a good tip is to be sure you are getting a variety of types -- the mixes being more expensive and also much more effective. Need to be applied when soil surface can be kept moist for two weeks and when soil temps aren't too high. (The too high I saw was 100 degrees, but I've no idea how reliable that is.) They need to be kept cool -- usually apparently shipped overnight in cool protecting container and put in refrig immediately until can be promptly applied. Most entertaining remark I saw was someone contemplating taking an ice chest to source to pick them up and a microscope to check that beneficial nematodes being purchased were lively.

About some variables to look for when purchasing beneficial nematodes

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

About applying beneficial nematodes

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Few more tips on beneficial nematodes

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Mentions alleged good source

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Another about sources and timing shipping of beneficial nematodes

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Best timing summer for hot areas?

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Suggests molasses solution to feed beneficial population and also says research suggested use of French marigolds -- so perhaps you already have one of the old fashioned smelly marigolds that hopefully combat at least some sorts of varmints

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Another strong plus for the French marigolds vs nematodes and as tomato guardians generally in the answers to an old post of mine

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

More mostly admiring posts about French marigolds and, interestingly, chrysanthemums.

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Good thread about which marigolds deter nematodes and why

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/s...ight=nematodes

Another question this raises, I recall in the past cautions about some methods of fighting root knot nematodes because they'd deter/destroy the valuable beneficials, as well. . . . warrants consideration and investigation as you decide on an approach to use.

This was a link in one of the threads above -- but looks as if you'd be wiser to go with beneficial nematodes (or another approach) rather than relying on marigolds, even though they can be used to deal with nematodes

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng045

Really have to run -- hope some of that helps -- was glad to review the info myself as I suppose nematodes are probably out there having attack conferences with the flea beetles and the voles and will show up in my tomato roots any time now.

[AlittleSalt]

Around here, when a building gets torn down - they sell old blocks and bricks.

However, you did make me think of something we have that could be used for the bottoms. Remember what greenhouses used to look like with the fiberglass panels? We have a bunch of those panels - they're used, but would work. I'll have go see how many we have - I know there are a lot of them.

Hmm, we might be building some raised beds after all.

[AlittleSalt]

JLJ, I've read my way down to the smelly marigolds. That's the ones I grow. Dwarf French Marigolds. I didn't know that about the molasses though. Fireants beware

Ok back to reading links.

[My Foot Smells]

here is a good article from the U of A extension on RKN.

https://www.uaex.edu/publications/pdf/FSA-7529.pdf

[AlittleSalt]

I agree Foot - it is one that I've already read, but I read it again anyway.

[Worth1]

With Marsha's comments on her container being contaminated with them.
How on earth would someone keep them out of a raised bed?
All it would take is a heavy rain splashing the bad nematode soil into the bed and it is over.

Worth

[BigVanVader]

I have eliminated RNK with solarizing and cover crops before. You have to use clear plastic or your just wasting your time. Just lay it down flat and secure all the edges with flat boards or the like. I left mine down for 3 months when I had them. Then planted cowpeas and rye in the fall and left them till spring heat killed them. Marigolds do suppress them but you have to get the right kind. http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0856/ANR-0856.pdf this link has the best ones listed. I know it feels terrible when things like this happen Salt but you can beat it and learn a lot more in the process. Whatever you decide I wish you luck.

[Worth1]

If the clear plastic is only going to be down for 3 or 4 months the cheap vapor barrier would work fine.

Worth