Heat Treatment Delays, Doesn't Reduce Germination?

[carolyn137]

(I was unaware of your past seed offers until joining here. And know that you have not
offered in some time. Maybe this year.)

Yes,this year, and yes, two years late for good reasons and when I get a chance I'll post a PREVIEW about the 2017 offer in the Off Topic Forum,and answers will be known at that time.

The good news is that Shawn, who will be taking over the hard part of the seed offer and is willing to let it run for maybe a few months so if it were me looking for some interesting new varieties I'd get them this summer for next year,

As it is,being a Global Mod here at Tville, as well as working with my now 7 seed producers, as well as contacting those ,mainly in Europe who have sent seeds before, and now working with two new Lebanese friends,one new,one older, time-wise, as well as reading the many magazines I sub to, as well as books, I must always have new books despite the fact that there are still several hundreds here not yet read,I do keep busy.

Carolyn

[Nan_PA_6b]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I dont think some people believe oxi clean kills like fermenting.
Just trying to get to the bottom of it is all.
Not arguing with your methods.
Worth

I know you're not arguing. Printed words are not always clear. No problem by me.

I know some don't think Oxiclean kills diseases. What we're talking about here is Oxiclean plus hot water treatment. Oxiclean removes the gel. Hot water kills diseases on the surface (like fermentation does) plus diseases inside the seed (which fermentation doesn't).

Nan

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Nan,I don't agree.

In my post above I gave you many links and hopefully you saw that there are many many tomato pathogens and here in the US ones found in the south,but not the north, and same in other countries as well.

If you are doing this just for yourself,your own seeds that you would sow and plants grown in your own garden,sure,OK, but I do not agree if you are making any seed offers or trading seeds to use them that way.

If you look at the Pest and Disease Forum, you see so many folks who don't even know what diseases their tomatoes have. Thankfully others here try to help them.

Carolyn

Carolyn will you please come back and explain to us what you mean by this please.
I am confused as well as the tread starter.
You would think the seeds would be safe to trade as the description of the process states.
Please no links just explain.
The oxy clean removes the gel coat and whether or not it kills outside stuff the heat treatment will inside and out.

I also asked you a question in the fermenting thread that for some reason you refuse to post in.
I am starting to get the felling you dont like me.
If that is the case then fine if not I dont know what to say.

Worth

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Carolyn will you please come back and explain to us what you mean by this please.
I am confused as well as the tread starter.
You would think the seeds would be safe to trade as the description of the process states.
Please no links just explain.
The oxy clean removes the gel coat and whether or not it kills outside stuff the heat treatment will inside and out.

I also asked you a question in the fermenting thread that for some reason you refuse to post in.
I am starting to get the felling you dont like me.
If that is the case then fine if not I dont know what to say.

Worth

Worth,we already addressed the issue of my not wanting to post in your fermentation thread and I told you that I had stopped by to take a look and since more than one person said they used the fermentation method I used. So any one of them,if asked,could share that with the others.

From Nan

(I am starting to get the felling you dont like me.
If that is the case then fine if not I dont know what to say.)

Nan,it is true that I didn't come back to answer after you posted your comments above. The reasons are several and also pertain to your PO Spoonful thread where I tried to help, after you gave a history of that variety and said it originated in Italy,which it did not.I shared with you that I had several links that would confirm that if you wanted me to share please ask,no response from you.

It seems to me that while you often ask questions,if someone disagrees with what you say that you already know what you want that person to say,and if they don't,that's it. Just my opinion.

Lastly,you said quite clearly that you didn't think I liked you like you. I'm here as a Global Mod and also one of the few G mods who also take the time to help others/

The first time I come to the site each day I see who has asked questions and no one has answered and I write down where those new threads are in my notebook here by the computer. So after a few days,those questions I can't answer myself I have to go searching for answers,first here at Tville,if not here,then to Tania,if not there then Google,if not there then to Ventmarin in France,etc.

I spend far to much time here already,but as a former teacher myself,it's what I want to do and that's to help others.

Do I decide who I might answer depending on whether I like them or not? Of course not, and as Tville has grown so rapidly there are many new members I don't know.Are there some that I do know that I'd rather not get involved in a thread?

Absolutely, but thinking is not doing.And usually based on their own participation here at TV and I don't mean how many posts either.

Carolyn, who has been here at TV since the day it opened back in Jan of 2006 and found herself already a Global Mod and has seen a lot happen thru the years. With someone now taking over the hard part of her seed offer but still sourcing seeds from everywhere,what she wants to do is buy a few more adult coloring books,sit back and listen to the kind of music she loves the best, and order yet more books to read when she already has hundreds she hasn't yet read. And much of this since she is permanently homebound now,will be in this walker forever,was 78 this past June,and, well,wants to read more books and that's that.

[Worth1]

I'm dropping it in this tread and the other thread.

Worth

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I'm dropping it in this tread and the other thread.

Worth

Worth,while I was not actually in your fermentation thread I was by reference,as you know so I can't drop that thread, but I am going to drop this thread.Sometimes one just has to do what a person thinks is the right thing to do and for me that's now.

Carolyn

[Nan_PA_6b]

1. Carolyn, I have never said to you that I didn't think you liked me. If you believe I said that, I'd really like to know what post that was.
2. You offered to give me links about tomatoes getting to Italy in this post:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....9&postcount=80
In the following post, I said that would be great. You never actually posted the links.
3. In this current thread, I simply asked if I might know your reasons for saying I shouldn't share heat treated seeds.

Nan

[Gardeneer]

It is a nice research work.
But beyond that, why one would want to do heat treatment, unless there is known variety with virus ?
Just asking.

[JRinPA]

I'm sorry to say I think there was a little mix up on this thread; I believe Worth was suggesting that carolyn didn't like him because of the fermentation thread. Carolyn, upon answering both Nan and Worth, attributed the suggestion to Nan. I closed my eyes and cringed at that point!

edited to add: these things would not happen on skype!

[Nan_PA_6b]

Thanks, JR!

Nan

[AlittleSalt]

Nan, I agree with JR. I think it was a little mix up too. Many times, words and meanings don't match.

I've been curious about heat treatment. I only learned about it this year, and know about this much [--], and that may be an overstatement.

[Nan_PA_6b]

Thanks, Salt. I agree it must have been an mixup. Best put behind us.

"why one would want to do heat treatment, unless there is known variety with virus?"

Gardeneer, good question! I don't know why I'm curious about heat treating. It seems like it could be useful. I want to know if it's practical, and under what circumstances it is or is not practical. Plus I love a good science experiment, as does DH.

I like the suggestions that have been made here for further experiments.

1. How do fermented (rather than Oxicleaned) seeds fare when heat treated?
2. What happens to germination a year or more after heat treatment?
3. Heat treating old seed is supposed to be bad. How old is too old?
4. How would the results be changed by upping the temperature of the germinating seeds from 72 F to say 82 F?
5. What would be different if the heat-treated ones were to be dried for a few weeks before germination testing?
6. And can I even replicate the results?

Just to be clear, I have no intention of trading any heat-treated seeds anytime soon, except possibly upon request.

Nan

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JRinPA

I'm sorry to say I think there was a little mix up on this thread; I believe Worth was suggesting that carolyn didn't like him because of the fermentation thread. Carolyn, upon answering both Nan and Worth, attributed the suggestion to Nan. I closed my eyes and cringed at that point!

edited to add: these things would not happen on skype!

You are absolutely correct that I attributed the comment to Nan instead of Worth.

So thanks for the correction. I apologize for making you cringe.And to Nan as well for making that error.

When I am without any mistakes ever, like so many here are ,ahem,I will post that in the Off Topic Forum for all registered members to see.

Carolyn

[ddsack]

Nan, I think many of us are interested in your experiments and I hope you continue to post your results in this thread. I can't imagine why you couldn't trade the heat treated seeds if they test germinate well for you, especially if they continue to do so after your one year wait. I believe Ellie at Bunny Hop seeds treats her sales seeds similar to what you are doing, though I don't remember her equipment set up. You might want to email her at the address given at her website for seed questions.

More people seem to be nervous about introducing diseases into their garden from traded seeds and would probably appreciate the heat treatment, even with poorer germination, if that is the case.

Personally, I've never had a problem with virus borne diseases so far, so can't comment on that. Since the other fungal/bacterial disease spores occur naturally in soil and air, I don't know how a person could ever tell whether any disease in their garden came from untreated seeds and not from their open air natural environment. Even if the seeds are clean when they arrive, they will soon be growing in a typical "germy" garden. The exception would be those who grow in enclosed and controlled greenhouse conditions.

[oakley]

Misunderstandings happen all the time face to face...just resolved a bit quicker,.

On heat treatment, I have a similar curiosity as Nan, and as she mentioned, it is not
her adopted method of treatment. We have the circulators, not affordable until just a
few yrs ago. So I doubt this method was even considered for the home gardener.

When it has been mentioned so often how the trading of seed can spread disease, I
I can't wrap my head around why it would be an issue to heat treat.

And...who is heat treating? Commercial hothouse growers? Any big seed suppliers?
If I lived in an area hard hit with problems, I would want the best quality/healthy seed
for a good start. Other factors come into play in our own environment but knowing
seeds are clean out of packet....

This is just quiet conversational thoughts, ....
I don't need answers right away. I'll contact via e-mail those I know are treating this
way. Once I get all my questions orderly.