recommendations for sweet-tart tomatoey varieties?

[Scooty]

Originally Posted by venturabananas

I guess my goals are to find varieties that I love the flavor of and that do well for me. Finding those varieties is complicated by the fact I don't have much space or time for growing tomatoes these days, so I was hoping to use the experiences of others to whittle down the "must try once" list to a list of must tries that have traits I like, and not ones that I don't like. For example, super sweet with no tartness at all doesn't appeal to my tastes, so I wouldn't want to bother with them even if they are on the "must try once" list. I've tried several of the must tries and was underwhelmed by some of them, presumably for the reasons you mentioned: different tastes of different folks, different growing conditions, etc. Others have become some of my favorites.

Thanks for providing the link to that old thread. I remember reading it at one point, but had forgotten what it said.

Is sungold sweet too sweet? What about a sungold that is as tart or kinda tart as it is sweet? Because that's the level of intensity for a Sweet Scarlet or an Aunt Ginny's Purple. Sweet Scarlet is probably more tart some sweet while AGP is more sweet and some tart. To me at least, these two have really bold flavor profiles.

If Aunt Ginny's Purple is overwhelming, then I'd second @Nancyruhl recommendation of George Detsika’s Italian Red.

[jtjmartin]

Ok, a third for George Detsika’s Italian Red. Big bold bruiser of a tomato. Just about ready to plant my first Aunt Ginny's Purple - excited to see it mentioned by so many.

Jeff

[Andrey_BY]

All early tomato varieties from USSR/Russia/Belarus/Ukraine/Moldova/Poland are more tart than sweet and I really like this flavor.

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by venturabananas

Great feedback @Tormato. It completely agrees with what I've noticed in my even less well constructed backyard experiments. Water-stressed plants grow less, look worse, but make fruit that taste better. I just need to figure out how to get just enough water stress but not too much!

A 3", or more, layer of mulch can help. It will mean much less watering, because the soil will not dry out as fast. But, it's even more important to not overwater, because the soil will not dry out as fast.

[SueCT]

I rarely water my tomatoes at all. Maybe 3-5 times per season depending on rain fall. 5 times would be a very hot, dry season. I have very high organic matter, water retentive soil, and mulch, which decreases my need to water, but I have also noticed much stronger, better tasting tomatoes to me, with less water. Tomatoes grown during a rainy season grow better but don't taste as good. You only have to google dry farming tomatoes to see a lot people agree.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by Tormato

A 3", or more, layer of mulch can help. It will mean much less watering, because the soil will not dry out as fast. But, it's even more important to not overwater, because the soil will not dry out as fast.

Yes, I'm a believer in a good mulch layer. I put a 3" layer of bark mulch in my pots.

Overwatering was a real problem the year I converted all my 20 gallon pots to homemade SIPs. The plants grew like crazy and the tomatoes were huge and tasted like bags of slightly tomatoey water. I don't understand how others who grow in self watering pots avoid that problem.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by SueCT

I rarely water my tomatoes at all. Maybe 3-5 times per season depending on rain fall. 5 times would be a very hot, dry season. I have very high organic matter, water retentive soil, and mulch, which decreases my need to water, but I have also noticed much stronger, better tasting tomatoes to me, with less water. Tomatoes grown during a rainy season grow better but don't taste as good. You only have to google dry farming tomatoes to see a lot people agree.

Yes, dry farming tomatoes can work in some places -- definitely not all. But I grow in pots, so not an option for me.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by Scooty

Is sungold sweet too sweet? What about a sungold that is as tart or kinda tart as it is sweet? Because that's the level of intensity for a Sweet Scarlet or an Aunt Ginny's Purple. Sweet Scarlet is probably more tart some sweet while AGP is more sweet and some tart. To me at least, these two have really bold flavor profiles.

If Aunt Ginny's Purple is overwhelming, then I'd second @Nancyruhl recommendation of George Detsika’s Italian Red.

Aunt Ginny's Purple and George Detsika's Red are now at the top of the must grow list.

I think Sungold has great flavor, and you can sort of choose the sweetness level based on how ripe you let them get. But I went away from cherries because I have such heavy disease pressure that I end up needing to spray fungicides (usually organic -- copper or sulfur) pretty regularly, and then feel like I need to wash the tomatoes before eating them. Cherries just take to much time to wash, and Sungold splits like crazy when washing.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by nancyruhl

I see now that you grow in containers. There are great dwarfs, too. Have you considered any of them. If I were container growing any of the list above, it would be Mrs Maxwell’s Big Italian. In my garden that variety is a more manageable size.

I agree, there are some great dwarf varieties, but I stopped growing them because their dense foliage makes them really susceptible to fungal diseases in my climate. I use big pots (20 gallons), so you can really grow any size tomato plant in them. And you can train them to fewer stems with open foliage so they dry out better than the short, stocky plants.

[Tormato]

A lot of cost and work, but would raised beds be a possible better option? Drainage issues can be solved with things like a layer of stones at the bottom.

[ddsack]

Originally Posted by venturabananas

Girl Girl's Weird Thing is a nice tomato, but for me didn't beat Rebel Yell for flavor or productivity. It didn't have much tartness for me.

Captain Luck and Little Lucky have both been mentioned. How do they differ from each other in flavor and productivity?

Both of them are related to the parent line of Lucky Cross, which is another great tasting red/yellow bicolor that should be grown more often, though if you are into productivity over flavor, it's not that prolific, at least for me. Little Lucky is a smaller round/oval version of the big beefsteak Lucky Cross. Many people like it better than Lucky Cross, because of the productivity, but in my garden, I found it sweeter and blander and I have a bias against saladette sized tomatoes. Captain Lucky is a tricolor of an accidental unknown cross of Lucky Cross. It has an unusual flavor profile, but it's not like the flavor of Rebel Yell, which sounds like what you are aiming for.


http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Lucky_Cross

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Little_Lucky

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Captain_Lucky

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by Tormato

A lot of cost and work, but would raised beds be a possible better option? Drainage issues can be solved with things like a layer of stones at the bottom.

I do have one a raised bed and have grown bland tomatoes in it. The roots get through the potting soil in the raised bed and down into the heavy clay underneath it. I'm not sure how to keep that from happening. Maybe I need to get the watering just right.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by ddsack

Both of them are related to the parent line of Lucky Cross, which is another great tasting red/yellow bicolor that should be grown more often, though if you are into productivity over flavor, it's not that prolific, at least for me. Little Lucky is a smaller round/oval version of the big beefsteak Lucky Cross. Many people like it better than Lucky Cross, because of the productivity, but in my garden, I found it sweeter and blander and I have a bias against saladette sized tomatoes. Captain Lucky is a tricolor of an accidental unknown cross of Lucky Cross. It has an unusual flavor profile, but it's not like the flavor of Rebel Yell, which sounds like what you are aiming for.


http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Lucky_Cross

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Little_Lucky

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Captain_Lucky

Thanks for the info Dee. I do love Rebel Yell, but I wouldn't say that's what I'm aiming for. I'm looking for varieties that are both sweet and tart; and productive.

[Scooty]

A couple questions come to mind.
1. What is your reference point for the ideal balanced sweet and tart tomato?
2. Which tomatoes did you find overwhelming?

What is your reference point for the ideal balanced sweet and tart tomato? If it's not Rebel Yell, is it Spike or Brandywine you mentioned in your first post?

Without a reference point, you're just going to get a slew of suggestions, probably many that won't fit your fancy, and you're going to waste the unnecessary time growing out things you don't like, which you were trying to avoid in the first place.

For example, when someone asks for red cherry suggestions as sweet as sungold, that's pretty specific. If someone asks for a sweet tart balanced cherry, you might as well pull out the entire cherry list at tomatobase.

As much as I like Aunt Ginny's Purple, I could have equally suggested Sophie's Choice for a sweet tart mater. AGP is on the very bold, intense end of the spectrum. One of the more intense maters I'd ever had. I say that since you mentioned you find certain maters overwhelming, which ones did you find overwhelming?

[venturabananas]

1. I've tended to use Spike as the standard for the ideal sweet and tart tomato. But I'm not looking for tomatoes that match that one. It is just an example of the sweet-tart balance I'm looking for. Rebel Yell, Indian Stripe, and Brandywine Sudduth are other examples of tomatoes I really love. And there are many more.

2. Perhaps "overwhelming" was the wrong word. "Unbalanced" or "one dimensional" might be better. Some tomatoes I've grown don't have much tartness to balance the sweetness. They aren't bad, they just aren't my favorites. For me, Sophie's Choice was sweet and one-dimensional. Druzba was, too. Just as examples, and maybe dependent on growing conditions.