BER, Understanding the Cause

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

I use three forms, CaNitrate (fast) dol lime (mid), crab meal (long), almost everyone happy.

I use the Calcinit once per week, dolomite lime powder goes in when the EB is replenished, starting every season.

[b54red]

I find it easier to just use the Texas Tomato Food regularly instead of trying to get the right amount of calcium by other means. The last few months have been really dry except for a few thunderstorms one of which was heavy and still not a single case of BER but I have kept up my weekly feedings and the late summer and fall plants are loaded with fruit. My old vines are also putting on a good bit of fruit but I am going to remove some of them tomorrow as they are just getting too long and I'll need the space for fall planting way before the new tomatoes will be ready to pick off those old vines. That will still leave me with two tomato beds to go into the cooler fall months.

I highly recommend using a heavy layer of cypress mulch for anyone having BER problems as it does such a good job of maintaining even soil moisture and it also keeps the soil cooler during those really hot days meaning less evaporation. During very dry times regular watering will still be needed especially in raised beds but the frequency and amount will be significantly reduced.

I also remember back when I did suffer regularly from BER that Mule Team was the worst offender in my garden.

Bill

[carolyn137]

I also remember back when I did suffer regularly from BER that Mule Team was the worst offender in my garden

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Interesting Bill and I'm wondering if you grew any of the other ones that Joe Bratka's father bred and I ask for two reasons.First, even Joe didn't know the parentages, and second,some of them,for me,grew the same and tasted almost the same.

Interesting.

Carolyn

[b54red]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I also remember back when I did suffer regularly from BER that Mule Team was the worst offender in my garden

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Interesting Bill and I'm wondering if you grew any of the other ones that Joe Bratka's father bred and I ask for two reasons.First, even Joe didn't know the parentages, and second,some of them,for me,grew the same and tasted almost the same.

Interesting.

Carolyn

Is Red Barn one of them? If it is it is one of my favorites. It is a vigorous plant that produces very large red fruit with very sturdy stems holding the fruit so no need to support the clusters unless they are exceptionally heavy. It is also one of the rare large fruited varieties that continues to produce big tomatoes during the hot summer down here. Most large fruited varieties drop off in size as soon as the temps get in the upper 90s but not Red Barn. Of course as the plant ages the fruit diminish in size as do all of them in my experience but this is one of my workhorses in the garden producing frequent large fruits that taste great.

I tried Box Car Willie if that is another one but it never did anything in my garden but it is probably due to the fusarium wilt or possibly nematodes.

Bill

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by b54red

Is Red Barn one of them? If it is it is one of my favorites. It is a vigorous plant that produces very large red fruit with very sturdy stems holding the fruit so no need to support the clusters unless they are exceptionally heavy. It is also one of the rare large fruited varieties that continues to produce big tomatoes during the hot summer down here. Most large fruited varieties drop off in size as soon as the temps get in the upper 90s but not Red Barn. Of course as the plant ages the fruit diminish in size as do all of them in my experience but this is one of my workhorses in the garden producing frequent large fruits that taste great.

I tried Box Car Willie if that is another one but it never did anything in my garden but it is probably due to the fusarium wilt or possibly nematodes.

Bill

Bill,here is a link ,with other good links embedded that should answer your questions about the ones Joe bred and the ones his father bred.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...atka+varieties

Just adding a bit here, but Joe told me that one of his secrets in his breeding his tomatoes,of which most are not documented above above , since he said if folks want heirlooms,I'll breed them,and so he did and gave them fictious histories back to Germany. Well,I had started to say that Joe said he brushed pollen from S.pimpinellifolium along with what he xed with,on the top of the stigma,and pimps,currant tomatoes,are well known for disease tolerances.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Pasture

The history given is wrong,for it was Joe's father who bred it and it's a rampant growing variety that is said to cover outhouses quicker than kudzu vine.

How I wish I was able to wake up the seeds for the three varieties that did not work out but I remember that one was named Meadow,now I'm talking about Joe's father.

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

. . . Joe told me that one of his secrets in his breeding his tomatoes,of which most are not documented above above , since he said if folks want heirlooms,I'll breed them,and so he did and gave them fictious histories back to Germany . . .

I believe that the midseason variety called Rose is described at Tatiana's as coming from Joe Bratka seed in 1993, supposedly coming from an Amish woman's gift to her doctor -- is it one of those whose listed heirloom background is fictional or not, do you know?

And from earlier in the thread on the thread topic:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

. . . There are only two situations I know of where Ca++ may play a role, and I'm too lazy to go back up and read that article now to see if these were mentioned, but one is when there is NO Ca++ in the soil which is exceedingly rare, and the other is when the soil is very acidic in which case Ca++ binds in the soil and isn't transported. But that can be solved by raising soil pH.

Ah, another situation is those growing tomatoes in containers, especially in high heat areas, where the extra water needed might flush out minerals, including Ca++, so adding some Ca++ in that situation might indeed help.

I think you may have left out one of the situations where application of calcium is necessary to avoid BER.

I very rarely see BER. This year Anna Maria's Heart has had BER problems with every fruit before it matures. It's always been a great producer, grown in roughly the same area -- no BER. This year, not only the first fruits, but all of them have BER. Plants next to them in the row, or in adjacent rows are fine.

Some distance away, Indian Stripe (original) has had several fruit with BER -- 3 or 4 perhaps. But later fruit seem to be OK. It's unusual because it usually doesn't have BER problems -- but the 1st fruit only is a more normal pattern. Again, surrounding plants are fine.

All of the plants get same food and water on the same schedule and are generally normal looking plants, not too large or too small, with average amount of fruit.

Only thing I can figure out is that Anna Maria's resident pixie is vexed because I didn't put out a bowl of milk for it at regular intervals.

One of many ways in which addition of calcium may be necessary to avoid BER.

[Cole_Robbie]

That's really interesting. I didn't have Anna Maria's this year, but didn't have problems in previous years. All my hearts seem invincible to BER. But like I posted earlier, other than Maglia Rosa, this year I couldn't grow an oblong cherry to save my life. I did not do any fertilization or calcium supplementation. Next year I will try to run the irrigation more if I get a June with no rain, but I might still foliar feed some cal nitrate to my oblong cherries to see if it makes a difference. I have no idea if it would, but that's what makes it fun to try.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I believe that the midseason variety called Rose is described at Tatiana's as coming from Joe Bratka seed in 1993, supposedly coming from an Amish woman's gift to her doctor -- is it one of those whose listed heirloom background is fictional or not, do you know?

No, Joe had nothing to do with the variety Rose,here's what happened.It was originally introduced by Johnny's

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-7942-rose.aspx

Lots of folks bought it way back when and spread it around.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Rose

I thought Joe might enjoy being an SSE listed member so I paid for his membership and he was there for a couple of years. Bill Minkey got every one of Joe's releases,the ones with fictitious histores, several of us warned Bill,but to no avail.Bill is stil a very good friend of mine and is doing seed production for me.

I mentioned before that Joe got seeds from both National Gardening and Organic Gardening where folks listged what they had,so he could have gotten Rose there,just as he got

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Boondocks

I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

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And from earlier in the thread on the thread topic:



I think you may have left out one of the situations where application of calcium is necessary to avoid BER.

I very rarely see BER. This year Anna Maria's Heart has had BER problems with every fruit before it matures. It's always been a great producer, grown in roughly the same area -- no BER. This year, not only the first fruits, but all of them have BER. Plants next to them in the row, or in adjacent rows are fine.

Some distance away, Indian Stripe (original) has had several fruit with BER -- 3 or 4 perhaps. But later fruit seem to be OK. It's unusual because it usually doesn't have BER problems -- but the 1st fruit only is a more normal pattern. Again, surrounding plants are fine.

All of the plants get same food and water on the same schedule and are generally normal looking plants, not too large or too small, with average amount of fruit.

Only thing I can figure out is that Anna Maria's resident pixie is vexed because I didn't put out a bowl of milk for it at regular intervals.

One of many ways in which addition of calcium may be necessary to avoid BER.

All I can say is that in all the several decades that I've been growing hearts,hundreds of them (I made a list a few years ago),inground,no supplemental Ca++,I have NEVER seen BER on even one heart fruit,ever.

Carolyn

[Ricky Shaw]

My first and only heart was this year, Orange Russian #117, and I had a dozen toms with BER. I thought is was just a propensity as a result of the odd fruit shape. Shows the danger of drawing conclusions from a small sampling. Good thing I stay tuned in, I would have carried that misconception.

[Labradors2]

I experienced BER this year and some of the dwarfs were really bad, but Costoluto Genovese was so bad and for so long that I won't grow it again.

We had a long drought and it was windy almost every day this summer providing perfect conditions for BER I guess.

Linda

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

All I can say is that in all the several decades that I've been growing hearts,hundreds of them (I made a list a few years ago),inground,no supplemental Ca++,I have NEVER seen BER on even one heart fruit,ever.

Carolyn

I was astonished, too. And if one was going to misbehave, I wouldn't have expected it to be Anna Maria. As usual, they were beautiful perfectly shaped hearts. Has to be those milk-deprived brownies.

They're not quite so milk deprived now -- since early August when I began spraying the zucchini with 10% milk solution to deal with the powdery milkdew I've been pouring the little bits of leftover solution on Anna Maria. If she manages to produce a few unBER'd end of season fruit, I'll be sure about the brownie effect.

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

My first and only heart was this year, Orange Russian #117, and I had a dozen toms with BER. I thought is was just a propensity as a result of the odd fruit shape. Shows the danger of drawing conclusions from a small sampling. Good thing I stay tuned in, I would have carried that misconception.

Orange Russian #117 did fine, here -- no sign of BER (like most of the garden). I was pleased that it managed to make fruit in our short season. Of course it can't produce as it would in a climate more suited to it's long season preference -- but it has several nice hearty fruit on it that will -- I hope -- survive long enough to be harvested -- some are pretty close.