Interested in Growing a Multiflora Dwarf?

[tryno12]

Heidi, a couple of pic's of Dominican Tomatoes in March along with Dan's #73X - F6 I believe Cross w/ Golden Heart? with first blossoms - around 3 months old . I don't know when I may get fruit from the #73X - F2 which has been in blossom for 2 weeks -
Pete

[maxjohnson]

Originally Posted by Al@NC

tryno12, hanging basket type plants don't grow up like normal tomato plants but rather grow down like Tumbling Tom in this link:

https://bonnieplants.com/product/tum...om-red-tomato/



Al

That's a pretty good photoshop.

I find Silvery Fir Tree works well as a hanging plant.

[Al@NC]

Originally Posted by maxjohnson

That's a pretty good photoshop.

I find Silvery Fir Tree works well as a hanging plant.

I'd say! I didn't know you could grow SFT as a hanging plant... Interesting..

Al

[tryno12]

I see my plant that resembles Silver Tree is Dan's #33X - F4 Pork Chop/ Tye Dye has some Blossoms - cool! I have a hard time telling the difference between #73Xn- F2 Fuzzy and # 13X F2 Sweet Baby Girl - I guess time will tell

[tryno12]

Hey people, sorry for the upside down and sideways photo's - i'll figure it out
Pete

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by tryno12

I see my plant that resembles Silver Tree is Dan's #33X - F4 Pork Chop/ Tye Dye has some Blossoms - cool! I have a hard time telling the difference between #73Xn- F2 Fuzzy and # 13X F2 Sweet Baby Girl - I guess time will tell

A quick observation on your comment about little difference between the 73X F2 and the 13X F2. I went back and looked at our correspondence before I sent you seeds. I probably didn't learn all I should have about what you wanted to do and how much experience you have working with unstable plants.

If you only planted a few F2s of those two varieties, they may very well be quite similar. At the F2 stage with a cross between plants as dissimilar as these, there is a tremendous amount of variety between plants.

I’ll use the 73X cross as an example… That was a cross between a micro multiflora and Fuzzy Wuzzy. Fuzzy Wuzzy is a determinate that has unique light green very fuzzy leaves and stays quite small. The F1 plant from that cross was a full-size indeterminate plant with non-fuzzy leaves. That means the fuzzy leaf and the determinate size are caused by recessive genes. For a plant to manifest a recessive characteristic, it must have two copies of that gene. The F1 only had the one copy it received from its papa so it wasn’t manifest.

In the next generation, the similarity between plants goes away and everything depends on the random distribution of genes that nature does so well. Of the F2 seeds you plant (for both 73X & 13X) approximately 75% will be full size indeterminates and 25% will be dwarf or smaller. Of each of those groups, approximately 75% will be regular leaf and 25% will be fuzzy leaf. (That’s a little bit of a lie in that some of the regular leaf show more fuzziness than a normal regular leaf, so having one copy of the gene sometimes does add a small amount of fuzziness but they are not ‘full-fledged’ fuzzy like their papa). That means only one out of 16 will be dwarf and fuzzy. If you then add additional characteristics like fruit color, shape, flavor, etc., you are looking for, the odds increase dramatically from one 1:16 to 1:64 to 1:256, etc.

So, 75% of the F2 plants from 73X and 13X will be very similar in leaf type. The reason I sent as many seeds as I did was so you could plant enough to possibly find something unique. If you only plant a few F2 seeds and don’t do a lot of specific culling, you are likely to be disappointed.

The 33X seeds I sent you were F4. By that generation, the leaf type and plant size have been fixed in that line. They should be quite similar in appearance. What we are looking for is differentiation is fruit size, color and (especially) flavor.

I hope that makes sense.

[hl2601]

Pete- I am loving your fuzzy! It almost looks like dusty miller. SO Dan- if this is an F3 and Pete has found one that's both a dwarf and a fuzzy, are chances the next generation will be as well?

[hl2601]

Here are my culled choices from Dan's #33X - F4 Pork Chop/ Tye Dye. I like the leaf type quite a bit. The center one seems to be growing a little faster. These little cuties are fun to watch.

[hl2601]

Here too are the 46x. Two different pots because I had that one cell that had very yellow cotyledons. All seeds were from the same envelope you sent Dan. The yellow cotyledon ones are all smaller also than their sisters. Odd. Something to watch.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by hl2601

Pete- I am loving your fuzzy! It almost looks like dusty miller. SO Dan- if this is an F3 and Pete has found one that's both a dwarf and a fuzzy, are chances the next generation will be as well?

Yes, if it is a dwarf, that trait and the fuzzy trait are controlled by recessive genes. Any F4 and beyond from that plant should be both dwarf and fuzzy. Those characteristics should be "fixed". However, not all dwarfs are created equal. There are numerous other genes that influence the final size of the plant and they will not necessarily be stabilized at this point. They will still have the possibility of anything from a large dwarf to a micro and anything between. It is not until F8 and later that all the traits are stabilized, although fuzzy and dwarf are fixed from here on.

Multiflora is also something that is controlled by a recessive gene and could pop up whenever - again, approximately 25% will show that trait in the F2. After that, you don't know. However, like the dwarf and fuzzy leaf, once it does show up, it should be fixed going forward.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by hl2601

Here are my culled choices from Dan's #33X - F4 Pork Chop/ Tye Dye. I like the leaf type quite a bit. The center one seems to be growing a little faster. These little cuties are fun to watch.

Thanks for posting the photos. I also really like that leaf type. They make for a very attractive plant - when the plant is really compact in a pot. I've grown out some of the indeterminates with that leaf type that came from a cross I made with Silvery Fir Tree and when they stretch out to normal indeterminate height with the fine (or carrot) leaf, they look kind of weird. They almost don't look right.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by hl2601

Here too are the 46x. Two different pots because I had that one cell that had very yellow cotyledons. All seeds were from the same envelope you sent Dan. The yellow cotyledon ones are all smaller also than their sisters. Odd. Something to watch.

Let us know if they differ. They came from an F3 that was red, but the papa in that cross was yellow. So, there is a good chance getting both red and yellow from the same batch of seeds.

[tryno12]

Heidi, My 33X-F4-1-4 look just like yours and have 1 plant 10" tall with blossoms.

Yes Dan it does make sense, I kinda knew what I was getting into and am glad to be growing some out - it looks like the I will have some good plants - thanks for the further clarification( statistical analysis which i did not think was that much of a long shot to get what I / we are looking for) - but it's all fun (and work) so i'll stay at it for awhile - now in the midst of summer cultivars seeding .................

Pete

[tryno12]

Seems this 73x - F2 fuzzy is a micro?? It has Blossomed out in 10 weeks and measures 10" Tall by 12" across - seems like a micro??
Pete

[tryno12]

And yes, the 73x - F4 - 3 looks like a thick leaved Dusty Miller. Very slow grower but gotta be micro