Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food

[zipcode]

Can anyone say how much does a gallon (or half) weigh? Preferably the contents only

I was wondering because of this thing on their site: "Our NPK values look low compared to, say, a generic 20-20-20. That's because liquids weigh much more than dry powders, and NPK is based on "percentage of weight"". Of course, 'liquids weigh more than dry powders' is BS when we think generally (like water vs flour, flour will sink), but I know that salts dissolved in water can make that liquid unusually heavy and much higher density than water.
So did anyone weigh theirs?

[b54red]

I did some experimenting a few years ago using traditional liquid fertilizer vs TTF. I found that my results were much better on most crops with the TTF and the cost was similar. I also experimented using different dilution rates and found that if you went much above the 1 TBS per ounce recommendation that the plants took up too much or if they were very young the stronger solution destroyed some of the feeder roots. Once plants were mature or older the amount of the solution could be upped quite a bit just not the concentration but with higher amounts you could sometimes get hyper growth and leaves unnaturally dark green and cutting back was necessary.

There was no easy way to determine how much TTF to use but rather a determination which you need to base on the appearance of the plants and how well they are doing. Very young plants seem to do better in the long run if you start them off with a lower concentration of TTF like 1 1/2 tsp per gallon in order to encourage root growth. I found that feeding the newly planted seedlings too much of the recommended dose early resulted in poor root growth and would lead to later problems. Once the plants get a few feet tall and start really putting on blossoms then the full recommended dose of 1 TBS per gallon is needed and as they get larger and larger you need to give them more of the solution each time you water to maintain great production and plant health. Plants that are a bit wan with poor fruit set generally need higher amounts of the solution and more frequent application until they reach a healthy appearance and better fruit set. Plants that are sending out too much vegetative growth usually need a little break in fertilizing. These observations are doubly important on container plants which seem to need flushing with clean water every so often to maintain healthy conditions.

I have had some ups and downs with using a liquid fertilizer. The downs are usually caused by too much rain to allow fertilizer application when needed or just being lazy and not giving the plants the necessary feedings they need for peak performance. Another set back I had was I tried using a stronger than recommended dose early on in a bed and the results looked good for a short while but eventually was a disaster when the plants failed to develop a good root structure and many died when conditions turned very dry and hot. When I pulled them up they had barely sent out any new roots. Since then I barely water or fertilize plants when they are set out except when they start wilting and then just enough to get them perked up a bit. By doing this gradual buildup of the TTF concentration and gradual increase in the amount of total mix applied I found my results were far better and the plants handled stress much better.

I also found that plants that seemed totally used up could be brought back to good production again by increasing the frequency of feeding and the amount of feeding. I found myself with plants that usually died by mid July with plants that had newfound health and growth with increasing production on into the fall. Of course all that was dependent on keeping the diseases and pests at bay. I also found that increasing the amount of fertilizing done during the really hot months would increase fruit set which is generally rare down here from mid July through August. I found myself getting some fruit set from varieties that are not usually good at setting any fruit once the temps get near 100 with nights around 80. Of course it took more than just the TTF. It took heavy mulching, grafting onto rootstock with great resistance, good watering, and taking care of the plants with preventive sprays and using the bleach spray to stop some persistent diseases.

I think most tomato growers would find TTF useful but they would need to experiment some to find how to best use it to fit their environment and growing methods.

Bill

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by zipcode

Can anyone say how much does a gallon (or half) weigh? Preferably the contents only

I was wondering because of this thing on their site: "Our NPK values look low compared to, say, a generic 20-20-20. That's because liquids weigh much more than dry powders, and NPK is based on "percentage of weight"". Of course, 'liquids weigh more than dry powders' is BS when we think generally (like water vs flour, flour will sink), but I know that salts dissolved in water can make that liquid unusually heavy and much higher density than water.
So did anyone weigh theirs?

Things sinking is water isn't about weight but about density. And flour will float... until it absorbs water.

I agree, though, that their statement doesn't make sense. They should have phrased it better to say that using water to carry substances increases the bulk and weight over just applying dry powder. But that still doesn't address the issue of low numbers, which is really just a dilution issue.

Regardless, I'm trying some this year. Arrived a week ago, have applied twice so far. Positive response from plants, but I'll need more time to really assess whether it's producing better results than the granular organic tomato food I've used before. It certainly works quickly, but I think that would be true of any liquid fert.

Of course, to really do a good test, I'd have to compare against another liquid tomato formula. It definitely is better than the fish emulsion, but that's because the fish emulsion is for a different purpose, i.e., to boost mostly nitrogen alone.

[zipcode]

I don't think there is any question of being better than the organic, I'm pretty sure it will, it is a complete formula with microelements and some other things apparently, and all in the right proportions. The question is if it's better than much cheaper hydroponic powders like the popular masterblend, kristalon, etc.

[Gardadore]

I have read this whole thread now from beginning to end and am ready to try some TTF. But I have some questions. I would like to hear from people who have used it with straw bales. I grow most of my tomatoes in straw bales which hold water very well. I am wondering what adjustments I would have to make so they are not waterlogged. It seems sensible to add a small amount, like a pint of diluted solution to each plant maybe twice a week. I can see increasing the amount if it doesn't rain or the plant is getting really big. The few dwarfs I have in 5 gallon grow bags are no problem.

Also which Urban fertilizer would be best for eggplants? Most are grown in Earthboxes so I have been interested in how one adds extra fertilizer. The solutions to that have been well answered here, just not if I should use the TTS as well or the Vegetable one.

[WilburMartin]

just ordered a .5 gallon - looking forward to the magic

I am the GM of a great public radio station in Hattiesburg, MS with a TON of organic growers - always open for some sponsorship!

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Gardadore

I have read this whole thread now from beginning to end and am ready to try some TTF. But I have some questions. I would like to hear from people who have used it with straw bales. I grow most of my tomatoes in straw bales which hold water very well. I am wondering what adjustments I would have to make so they are not waterlogged. It seems sensible to add a small amount, like a pint of diluted solution to each plant maybe twice a week. I can see increasing the amount if it doesn't rain or the plant is getting really big. The few dwarfs I have in 5 gallon grow bags are no problem.

Also which Urban fertilizer would be best for eggplants? Most are grown in Earthboxes so I have been interested in how one adds extra fertilizer. The solutions to that have been well answered here, just not if I should use the TTS as well or the Vegetable one.

The egg plants will probably do fine with the TTF. You could call the company and ask which one they recommend for egg plants. I use all of their products and most are fine with other products but some crops like the different ratios of ingredients better. Pepprs seem to do a bit better with Vegetable than with TTF but they do fine with either.

Since you will be getting little nutrients from the straw bales the TTF which is a good fertilizer for containers or even hydroponics should work great with them. I have never used straw bales for growing but I like the idea and have seen pictures of very successful tomato plants grown in them.

Good luck, Bill

[Gardadore]

Thanks, Bill. I also believe this is the answer to my straw bales. The tomatoes do really well in them and are fantastic so far this year. I usually use a combination of all kinds of things when I first plant the seedlings in the bales from a good potting mix to which I add worm castings, bio-Minerals, Mycorrizal Root enhancer, organic granular fertilizer. After they have settled in I have used the Aggrand fertilizers, which are great but involve mixing different bottles depending on flower setting and filling out. One fertilizer would make things much easier, to say the least.

I will double check which one they recommend for the eggplants. It would certainly be convenient if the TTF worked well for both!

[rick9748]

Good question and if you live in a high humidity area, South Carolina, do you really want to do the foliar feeding?

[gorbelly]

I used TTF on my eggplants this past year, and they did very well. In fact, I used it for all my fruiting veg. On peppers and cucurbits, I supplemented with some fish emulsion, as, in my experience, these like a little more nitrogen. I'm sure their general veg formula would have been fine, but I have a small garden and wanted to keep things simple. I already buy the fish emulsion for my leaf veg, and I buy the TTF for tomatoes. Didn't want to have to buy yet another fert.

[Gardeneer]

I have read a lot about TTF in the last couple of years but have not had a chance to try it yet.
Can you buy it in any store , other than mail order ?
I have a new garden with brand new virgin native sandy loam soil amended with all kind of organic matter. After moving I had no gardening ferts, sprays, tools, etc. Past December I bought couple of gallons of Alaska Fish fert (5-1-1) , @ $2 per gallon at clearance sale at Walmart. I also bough a 5 lb MG 24-8-16 from Lowes. Now I am pretty much stocked up. All I have to fertilize now is 18 garlic plants. Come April I will be heavy user of fertilizers. Then I might give a try to TTF.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I have read a lot about TTF in the last couple of years but have not had a chance to try it yet.
Can you buy it in any store , other than mail order ?
I have a new garden with brand new virgin native sandy loam soil amended with all kind of organic matter. After moving I had no gardening ferts, sprays, tools, etc. Past December I bought couple of gallons of Alaska Fish fert (5-1-1) , @ $2 per gallon at clearance sale at Walmart. I also bough a 5 lb MG 24-8-16 from Lowes. Now I am pretty much stocked up. All I have to fertilize now is 18 garlic plants. Come April I will be heavy user of fertilizers. Then I might give a try to TTF.

For me the biggest benefit has been the increased fruit set that was achieved by weekly feedings of my tomatoes with TTF. Before I started using it I rarely had really heavy fruit set and never had to cull fruit but now it is common for me to cull fruit because of too much fruit set. Too much fruit set is not a problem even with TTF when it is the middle of the summer so the extra fruit setting is really welcome when it is so hard to get any fruit set in the mid summer heat. TTF has been a real boon to my being successful with growing tomatoes all season long and getting a decent amount from plants in mid and late summer when the heat makes fruit set very difficult.

I recommend you get some so you can have it when the plants get into the blooming and fruit setting stage. Regular feedings of TTF during that time will reap rewards for you in heavier than normal fruit set which can be particularly important with finicky producers like Brandywine Sudduth's.

Bill

Bill

[newgardener_tx]

How much do you feed each week? 1 table spoon for each plant? Thanks.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Can you buy it in any store , other than mail order ?

IIRC, it's only available in some stores in TX. I ordered mine online, and it wasn't a big deal. Shipping is included in their prices when you order from their website.

Has anyone compared to a similar hydroponic product?

I think TFF is a good deal for people with small gardens like me because it can be hard to get a decent all-in-one tomato product like this when buying hydroponic nutes for the same price in small quantities. But I wonder whether it's really that miraculous or whether the difference is that hydroponic nutrients are more beneficial than people realize even for in-ground plants.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by newgardener_tx

How much do you feed each week? 1 table spoon for each plant? Thanks.

It depends on the size of the plant and the condition the plant is in. If the plant is large and it is relatively hot and blooming I give it a good watering with the solution. I use a hose end sprayer with it set to 1 TBS/gal and just water them well. If the plant looks a bit pale or has been dropping too many blooms I will really soak the ground under it well. If the plant is overly green or to vegetative then I may skip giving that plant or only give it a light feeding at a lower setting.

Bill