Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food - Page 36

Worth1 · April 4, 2017

Rockporter I would get along well with your husband.

Worth

Rockporter · April 10, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

Rockporter I would get along well with your husband.

Worth

I believe that Worth!

He's been working all day in the garden again today. He took those beds he built me and started a top for them. They will have a poly clear top for light, and I will be able to close it in for a small greenhouse for winter. We are working on designing the sides to make them removable. He is great!

b54red · April 10, 2017

I finally couldn't wait any longer and gave my tomatoes their first dose of TTF since they were planted on the 21st of March. Even though they have only been in the ground about 3 weeks they are all blooming and I thought it was time to give them a bit of a boost in setting fruit. I'm hoping to see some good fruit set over the next few weeks. I need to go out and give them a coating of Daconil since it the last spraying was washed away by rain a few days back.

Bill

ArcherB · May 15, 2017

I took the plunge and ordered a gallon. Looks like it shipped today. Unfortunately, it's a little late in the year so I'll to wait 'til next year to see how it does.
Although, it doesn't really matter if I can't get my russet mites under control.

Rockporter · May 15, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcherB

I took the plunge and ordered a gallon. Looks like it shipped today. Unfortunately, it's a little late in the year so I'll to wait 'til next year to see how it does.
Although, it doesn't really matter if I can't get my russet mites under control.

Wait, What? Why is it late in the year? Use it when it comes the next time you water. You have blooms on your plants right? Use it! Don' wait till next year.

b54red · May 15, 2017

Totally agree with Rockporter.

As to getting the mites under control. I have only found one thing that really works and it does take some work and at least one or two repeated applications to really get rid of them. You need a good sprayer because this concoction can create some clogging even when done correctly.

Take about a half gallon of water and add 2/3 to 3/4 of a cup of food grade Diatomaceous Earth in a jug and shake it well. Then stain it through a fine strainer like those small stainless steel ones they sell in every cooking goods supply section of your grocery store or Wally World. Then add 2 TBS of Dawn dish washing liquid and a strong dose of Permethrin. Then fill your sprayer up with water to the gallon mark and close it and shake it well. Make sure to keep shaking your sprayer occasionally to stop the DE from settling. You can make as much as you need just increase the DE, Permethrin and Dawn along with the amount of water necessary. I have a back pack sprayer and when I have to use this combo I usually mix 2 to 3 gallons at a time because I usually have at least 50 plants or more by the time the mites show up.

Spray late in the evening or very early in the morning for best results. Make sure to spray with as fine a mist as possible with as much pressure as you can. Be sure to spray every surface of the plant and leaves and down to the ground on the stem. I also spray the mulch below the plant. The Permethrin will kill many of the adult mites and the soap helps with coverage, penetration as well as smothering some of the mites. The fine film of DE that is left on the plants once they dry will kill a lot of the newly hatched mites and juveniles. Don't wait too long to repeat if the mites are as bad as you say. I would wait three days and then repeat the spraying again because no matter how good you spray the first time there will be many mites and eggs that will not be affected by the first treatment. In three days go out and inspect your plants closely for new mites and keep doing this for a while until you are sure they are gone. Keep the plants well watered during this time because the mite damage will cause a lot of water loss and drying out of the plants.

I have been using this for a couple of years and it has been very effective but it has one bad side affect and that is it will kill almost all of the beneficial insects as well. I use this for massive invasions of stink bugs, leaf footed bugs and aphids but will use it immediately if I see mites because they are so hard to control. Last year I actually lost a few plants to mites because they came in so fast and in such numbers that I was playing catch-up from the start. By the time I realized they were attacking my plants it was too late for a couple of them and it took far more treatments than usual to get rid of them; but I finally did. Despite drought conditions and extreme heat I was still able to have a good crop of mid and late summer tomatoes last year. In the past I would have ended up losing most of my plants or resorting to Malathion which itself will damage plants when applied in strengths that will stop mites along with the fact that I am reluctant to use poison that strong on my food.

Good luck, Bill

Fiishergurl · May 15, 2017

Bill, you always post such thorough advice. Its very helpful. Do you ever get powdery mildew and have any treatments that really work?

Ginny

ArcherB · May 15, 2017

I was going to try something very similar to that, minus the DE, plus neem oil and insecticidal soap rather than dishwashing liquid, as I've killed many plants with it in the past. I'll see if I can find some fine, wetable DE.
The problem I have is the Permethrin I've purchased. It's this stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The problem is that it's not rated for vegetables, although I was going to delute it quite a bit. I'm sure Permethrin is fine, but I'm not sure about the rest of the ingredients which are Xylene (mixed isomers), Ethyl benzene, Trimethylbenzene, & Cumene. I have no idea what this stuff is. Is it harmful to eat vegetables sprayed with this stuff after being thoroughly washed? It says it's safe for pets and even to put on skin. Why would they say I can't spray veggies with it?

(understand it's not part of this thread, but since we are here anyway...)

b54red · May 15, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiishergurl

Bill, you always post such thorough advice. Its very helpful. Do you ever get powdery mildew and have any treatments that really work?

Ginny

I get it on my squash and sometimes melons or cucumbers but rarely have I had trouble with it on tomato plants. I keep my plants sprayed with Daconil and alternate using a copper spray. I also spray my tomatoes and all my cucurbits with my diluted bleach spray. It will make short work of powdery mildew but it is best when used very early since the leaves infected with mildews will die and shrivel up once sprayed with the diluted bleach spray. That is why I try to spray the underside of my squash plants at least every ten days with the dilute bleach spray.

There is a whole thread devoted to the bleach spray and you should read it first before using it. The great thing about the bleach spray is it can be used frequently and it is cheap and if mixed and used correctly both effective and safe. The bad thing about it is it has little if any residual effect so fungicides are much better for prevention with most diseases. It is best for stopping an already existing problem where fungicides are rarely effective. Down here no matter how diligently you use fungicides things like gray mold and other diseases will still show up on your plants and that is when the bleach spray is most efficacious. The Key to using it effectively is to use it as soon as the problem crops up. Too many people wait til the problem is past fixing and then use the bleach spray and in the process lose most of their foliage. Delaying is the worst thing you can do to stop a fungal or disease problem. I must say though that it really works to stop the mildews that can destroy squash if used regularly and very early before the problem gets bad.

Bill

RayR · May 15, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcherB

The problem is that it's not rated for vegetables, although I was going to delute it quite a bit. I'm sure Permethrin is fine, but I'm not sure about the rest of the ingredients which are Xylene (mixed isomers), Ethyl benzene, Trimethylbenzene, & Cumene. I have no idea what this stuff is. Is it harmful to eat vegetables sprayed with this stuff after being thoroughly washed? It says it's safe for pets and even to put on skin. Why would they say I can't spray veggies with it?

(understand it's not part of this thread, but since we are here anyway...)

There's good reason it's not rated for crops, namely Ethyl benzene, Trimethylbenzene, & Cumene. Cumene is a suspected carcinogen.
I wouldn't put that stuff on my pets either.

ArcherB · May 15, 2017

That's what I was looking for, Ray. Thanks a lot.

Worth1 · May 15, 2017

All of those ene's are bad news.
Worth

b54red · May 15, 2017

There are plenty of mixes of Permethrin out there in the 10% strength that are available and don't have those other harmful chemicals in them. They are mostly sold for treating animals for flies and fleas etc. They would need to be diluted quite a bit I would think. I don't see any reason to get it in a strength like the one you showed and especially not with all those other bad things in it. Here is one of the ones I found rather easily online that is available from Tractor Supply.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-spray-8-fl-oz

Here is one that I found that is recommended for vegetables in a 10% strength.
http://www.bugspraycart.com/insectic...g-plus-10-perm

There are also lots of Permethrin formulations specifically geared to garden use that can readily be picked up at places like Walmart, Lowes and Home Depot. I found their recommended mixing rates a bit too weak for killing spider mites and stink bugs effectively. That is why I ended up using Malathion a few times which for some reason is far more lethal even at vegetable garden application rates than the Permethrin and has a longer residual and much longer wait time to harvest. Most Permethrin garden sprays have a wait time of no more than one day for most things. Another problem with Malathion even at recommended garden rates it can sometimes cause leaf burn on tomatoes at least it did for me the few times I used it. I have been using a 10% Permethrin for years and feel much better about using it than something like Malathion and it had a garden dilution rate on the label for most vegetables. I guess this type of Permethrin is still available because it has been a long time since I bought my last quart bottle of it. I thought it would last me the rest of my life at the rate I was using it but last years stink bug and spider mite invasions caused me to use much more than normal during a season. So I am finally getting low and will need to get some more soon so I hope it is still available.

Bill

creister · May 16, 2017

Bill,

I believe it is still readily available. Saw some at the feed store the other day.

HudsonValley · May 21, 2017

Just ordered a bottle of Texas Tomato Food and (separately, from the big orange box store) an all-purpose sprayer with metering dial that fits on the end of a garden hose (free shipping; yay!) The search function and I aren't getting along at the moment, but am I correct in thinking that these two will work together?

May 15, 2017	#533
ArcherB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 200	I was going to try something very similar to that, minus the DE, plus neem oil and insecticidal soap rather than dishwashing liquid, as I've killed many plants with it in the past. I'll see if I can find some fine, wetable DE. The problem I have is the Permethrin I've purchased. It's this stuff: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The problem is that it's not rated for vegetables, although I was going to delute it quite a bit. I'm sure Permethrin is fine, but I'm not sure about the rest of the ingredients which are Xylene (mixed isomers), Ethyl benzene, Trimethylbenzene, & Cumene. I have no idea what this stuff is. Is it harmful to eat vegetables sprayed with this stuff after being thoroughly washed? It says it's safe for pets and even to put on skin. Why would they say I can't spray veggies with it? (understand it's not part of this thread, but since we are here anyway...) Last edited by ArcherB; May 15, 2017 at 04:03 PM.

April 4, 2017	#526
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Rockporter I would get along well with your husband. Worth

April 10, 2017	#528
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I finally couldn't wait any longer and gave my tomatoes their first dose of TTF since they were planted on the 21st of March. Even though they have only been in the ground about 3 weeks they are all blooming and I thought it was time to give them a bit of a boost in setting fruit. I'm hoping to see some good fruit set over the next few weeks. I need to go out and give them a coating of Daconil since it the last spraying was washed away by rain a few days back. Bill

May 15, 2017	#529
ArcherB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 200	I took the plunge and ordered a gallon. Looks like it shipped today. Unfortunately, it's a little late in the year so I'll to wait 'til next year to see how it does. Although, it doesn't really matter if I can't get my russet mites under control.

May 15, 2017	#531
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Totally agree with Rockporter. As to getting the mites under control. I have only found one thing that really works and it does take some work and at least one or two repeated applications to really get rid of them. You need a good sprayer because this concoction can create some clogging even when done correctly. Take about a half gallon of water and add 2/3 to 3/4 of a cup of food grade Diatomaceous Earth in a jug and shake it well. Then stain it through a fine strainer like those small stainless steel ones they sell in every cooking goods supply section of your grocery store or Wally World. Then add 2 TBS of Dawn dish washing liquid and a strong dose of Permethrin. Then fill your sprayer up with water to the gallon mark and close it and shake it well. Make sure to keep shaking your sprayer occasionally to stop the DE from settling. You can make as much as you need just increase the DE, Permethrin and Dawn along with the amount of water necessary. I have a back pack sprayer and when I have to use this combo I usually mix 2 to 3 gallons at a time because I usually have at least 50 plants or more by the time the mites show up. Spray late in the evening or very early in the morning for best results. Make sure to spray with as fine a mist as possible with as much pressure as you can. Be sure to spray every surface of the plant and leaves and down to the ground on the stem. I also spray the mulch below the plant. The Permethrin will kill many of the adult mites and the soap helps with coverage, penetration as well as smothering some of the mites. The fine film of DE that is left on the plants once they dry will kill a lot of the newly hatched mites and juveniles. Don't wait too long to repeat if the mites are as bad as you say. I would wait three days and then repeat the spraying again because no matter how good you spray the first time there will be many mites and eggs that will not be affected by the first treatment. In three days go out and inspect your plants closely for new mites and keep doing this for a while until you are sure they are gone. Keep the plants well watered during this time because the mite damage will cause a lot of water loss and drying out of the plants. I have been using this for a couple of years and it has been very effective but it has one bad side affect and that is it will kill almost all of the beneficial insects as well. I use this for massive invasions of stink bugs, leaf footed bugs and aphids but will use it immediately if I see mites because they are so hard to control. Last year I actually lost a few plants to mites because they came in so fast and in such numbers that I was playing catch-up from the start. By the time I realized they were attacking my plants it was too late for a couple of them and it took far more treatments than usual to get rid of them; but I finally did. Despite drought conditions and extreme heat I was still able to have a good crop of mid and late summer tomatoes last year. In the past I would have ended up losing most of my plants or resorting to Malathion which itself will damage plants when applied in strengths that will stop mites along with the fact that I am reluctant to use poison that strong on my food. Good luck, Bill

May 15, 2017	#532
Fiishergurl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oak Hill, Florida Posts: 1,781	Bill, you always post such thorough advice. Its very helpful. Do you ever get powdery mildew and have any treatments that really work? Ginny

May 15, 2017	#536
ArcherB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 200	That's what I was looking for, Ray. Thanks a lot.

May 15, 2017	#537
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	All of those ene's are bad news. Worth

May 15, 2017	#538
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	There are plenty of mixes of Permethrin out there in the 10% strength that are available and don't have those other harmful chemicals in them. They are mostly sold for treating animals for flies and fleas etc. They would need to be diluted quite a bit I would think. I don't see any reason to get it in a strength like the one you showed and especially not with all those other bad things in it. Here is one of the ones I found rather easily online that is available from Tractor Supply. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-spray-8-fl-oz Here is one that I found that is recommended for vegetables in a 10% strength. http://www.bugspraycart.com/insectic...g-plus-10-perm There are also lots of Permethrin formulations specifically geared to garden use that can readily be picked up at places like Walmart, Lowes and Home Depot. I found their recommended mixing rates a bit too weak for killing spider mites and stink bugs effectively. That is why I ended up using Malathion a few times which for some reason is far more lethal even at vegetable garden application rates than the Permethrin and has a longer residual and much longer wait time to harvest. Most Permethrin garden sprays have a wait time of no more than one day for most things. Another problem with Malathion even at recommended garden rates it can sometimes cause leaf burn on tomatoes at least it did for me the few times I used it. I have been using a 10% Permethrin for years and feel much better about using it than something like Malathion and it had a garden dilution rate on the label for most vegetables. I guess this type of Permethrin is still available because it has been a long time since I bought my last quart bottle of it. I thought it would last me the rest of my life at the rate I was using it but last years stink bug and spider mite invasions caused me to use much more than normal during a season. So I am finally getting low and will need to get some more soon so I hope it is still available. Bill

May 16, 2017	#539
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	Bill, I believe it is still readily available. Saw some at the feed store the other day.

May 21, 2017	#540
HudsonValley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hudson Valley, NY, Zone 6a Posts: 626	Just ordered a bottle of Texas Tomato Food and (separately, from the big orange box store) an all-purpose sprayer with metering dial that fits on the end of a garden hose (free shipping; yay!) The search function and I aren't getting along at the moment, but am I correct in thinking that these two will work together?