AVOID Pepper Joe's AT ALL COSTS! - Page 4

FiguredOut · February 10, 2012

You do realize photos and pictures fall under copyright laws? It only takes one person to say, "Hey, I took that photo, now this person is using to to generate a profit."

Jeannine Anne · February 11, 2012

Well I have read the whole thread, watched the videos, seen the triple rated tomato which isn't and I am sorry but despite seeing Penny changing the names of incorrect tomatoes I can truthfully say I would not buy from this site. It doesn't feel right to me ..too much rah rah rah and I wouldn't feel confident even if I had come accross the site without this thread..sorry Penny but too much hard sell for me.

Just to add, she pushes organic which is fine, says she grows her own..but I could not find anywhere she states she is registered organic, does she not have to be to say that if she grows her own. I could be wrong..

XX Jeannine

PennyM · February 11, 2012

Hi Jeannine,
That's fine and I respect your opinion.
Thanks ScottinAtlanta for differentiating Hardcore marketing from Fluff marketing. I prefer the direct approach.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny

kenny_j · February 12, 2012

Jeannine, I have to agree with you, and I am by no means a prude, I can get down and dirty with the best of anybody, and like many men have watched my share of porn, but mixing sex and my love of gardening, and especially tomatoes , makes me feel kinda ill. Sorry penny, hope it works for you, sex has sold many a product I know. But doesn't inspire me to purchase anything when it comes to gardening.

**Mischka** · February 12, 2012

Everyone here is equally entitled to share their opinion, without fear of being criticized for it.

We're not going to tolerate personal attacks, period.

Petronius_II · February 12, 2012

WARNING: Yet more long-windedness followeth. Proceed at your peril.

Quote:

mixing sex and my love of gardening, and especially tomatoes , makes me feel kinda ill. Sorry penny, hope it works for you, sex has sold many a product I know.

Well, I sort of feel the same way about the Peter Pepper, but it hasn't changed one bit my enthusiasm for those fine seedsmen and seedswomen who include it in their offerings. I first read about it on one of Gleckler's old mailing lists, after all.

It's not really the pepper itself that bothers me. It's the catering to the notion -- very popular among both wishy-washy middle-of-the-road liberals and stylishly pseudolibertarian conservatives-- that one is somehow being daring and iconoclastic by growing the Peter Pepper.

To me, daring would be something like breeding a naked-seeded pumpkin or squash that is easy to grow, disease and drought resistant, and incredibly productive-- something like Rob Johnston I think it was did when he bred Baby Bear, only maybe even better-- and then corraling the resources to produce that seed in massive quantities, followed by sending X numbers of said seeds free of charge to groups like Oxfam, and to the agriculture departments of, say, Ethiopia, Sudan, Haiti, Ecuador, Kazakhstan etc. Someplace where people are rather hungry, and without good reason other than the non-hungry people of the world think they're too busy with problems of their own.

...Or maybe do the same with an OP/stabilized hybrid corn of the kind of which I dream on a regular basis. As big and productive as Mexican June corn. Roughly as sweet as Iochief, or maybe Buhl. As high in protein as Hopi Blue. Maybe all three primary colors of kernels on the same ear: yellow, red, blue. Something fairly close to a full nutritious meal out of a single plant.

...And then just give it away for free to whomever needs it. Asking nothing in return but enough resources to keep you going a few more miles down the road.

Do something resembling that, and I'll call you daring and iconoclastic. But growing the Peter Pepper, and snickering about how cool it looks? Nahhhh, that's just for pretenders, know what I mean?

...But I would be interested in knowing more about just what Penny's some-kind-of-a-treelike tomato is really like. Maybe that tomato has some hard-to-find genes that would make for really good breeding stock.

As for the tone of Penny's site... Well, I've only sold a very few garden seeds on Ebay, and that's the meager extent of my commercial experience, but I've plenty of experience selling other things altogether, in a wide variety of markets.

As I see it, when one is in business, one tends to find that people who are unlikely to ever buy anything from you, are still worthy of one's respect and consideration, and sometimes of action calculatedly taking their opinions and feelings into account.

People who already do buy from one, without so many entreaties (justified or non-) to jump through X number of hoops-- they deserve all the same, only a whole lot more so.

...So I tend to think that for the most part, with some obvious exceptions, Penny ought to stick with what works for her.

Jeannine Anne · February 12, 2012

My comment about Penny's site had very little to do with the triple X-rated tomato as such. My point was that she called it a tomato then said it wasn't, I couldn't care a bit that it was anatomically like something else.

My reason for not wishing to buy was a combination of things, the "odd tomato" was just one.

I was not knocking Penny either, I made no reference to her personally. The site did not appeal to me generally, it was very well done and an interesting read but generally I prefer just plain talk whatever I am buying and find the rah rah a bit off putting whether for seeds , shoes, furniture or groceries.

I don't know Penny, have never done business with her so am not in a position to judge her and would not if I was.

It is clear a lot of time and work has gone into her site and that is commendable especially when she seems to be approachable when errors are made.

She is in business to make a living, I truly wish her well and would support her right to make her site the best she can for the business she is looking for. i

My comments were a personal opinion of her site not at Penny herself, I would like to make that very clear here.

I might add as a note to Penny directly, there are several well known sites that are a wee bit too rah rah for me and I don't buy there either but nevertheless if they are honest and straighforward I wish them well in their endevour as I do you.

Sincerley XX Jeannine

kenny_j · February 12, 2012

Should have never entered this arena

as I stated in my original post. I did see the full context before deleted, and I take no offense. I didn't mean to criticize Penny, and I hope she does all right. Actually thought I was being helpful. I can be a typical male pig, I admitted that. Just saying sex appeal does not work for me in marketing veggies. I watched a video that showed deformed tomatoes that looked like sexual organs to me, and it did not make me want to run out and eat a freshly picked tomato. If it works for some one else great. My last post on this thread, there are more important topics for sure.

**nctomatoman** · February 12, 2012

Isn't it a great country when we all have choices - what to watch, what to buy, where to buy it, what to think of it! To each their own....and whatever works, I guess

livinonfaith · February 12, 2012

Have to admit, that I'm still (just barely) on the negative side of the fence about this site. (WARNING: long drawn out, possibly assinine opinions. Proceed at your own risk!)

I'm going to give my full two cents worth, not because I think my opinion is all that important, but because I suspect others may either agree or disagree and that it may help Penny make the site better than it is.

Penny does seem to be a very open and adaptive person who is trying to balance making money, providing information and having some fun doing it all. So this is not a critique of Penny herself, but of some things that I personally like and dislike about the site.

Negatives first, just to get them over with.
The tomato/squash ★★★★★ thing, (they won't let me type the correct anatomical name

) just seems like false advertising. It's a squash. Why call it a tomato? Maybe it's a joke? It seems like several of us are not only not getting it, but having a negative reaction, so she may want to reevaluate how it's presented?

Some of the info does not seems to be correct or seems to be exaggerated. One example is that I don't think most would describe indeterminate cherry tomatoes as "smaller bush type plants" that are perfect for containers or small spaces. My indeterminate cherries (and most of Penny's cherries are also indeterminate) grew all over the place and I wouldn't recommend them for container plantings. Determinate cherries, on the other hand, might be great for containers. (As would most any determinate tomatoes or dwarfs.)

Tomato horn worms do not lay eggs until they have turned into their adult moth form. Those hornworms that have eggs laid on them by wasps will not make it to the moth stage and therefore will not lay eggs.

Does the tree tomato really average a bushel of tomatoes? If so, Wow! It honestly sounds too good to be true and there is nothing on the site to back it up, so I will tend to form a negative opinion with that. If it does, then I would love to see some documentation and reviews from actual clients, otherwise it just brings down the believability of the site. (That may be my cynical side, but I don't think I'm the only one who is wary of these types of claims.)

Honestly, my real biggy, and others have also brought this up, is using the photos of others without permission. As a graphic artist, I have to say that this issue, more than any other, will keep me from buying anything or recommending the site until it is corrected. I suspect that Penny may not understand the importance of this. (as many people don't) It is stealing, plain and simple.

This in the only thing that I do feel is a major issue and hasn't been addressed yet. The irony is that the photos that seem to be Penny's own photos are actually as good or better than the ones that aren't hers. Hopefully, this will be corrected quickly.

If that one major flaw were corrected, then there are also many positives about the site. It is obvious that a lot of love went into creating it and as a southern girl, I appreciate a bit of showmanship and humor! The erotic veggie doesn't bother me one bit as long as it is accurately marketed.

I most appreciate the fact that she is trying to educate, even if some of the facts are a bit off. (That's something that, I'm sure, a lot of really knowledgeable people here would be happy to help her with!)

Also, we have first hand testimony that her product and her service are quite good which are two of the most important priorities of any seed company.

Okay, that's my fifty cents. (I went way over two cents) Anyone else?

kenny_j · February 13, 2012

I recieved a PM from Jennifer with a sincere apology, which impressed me a lot. I realized from it, that I owe Penny an apology, so Penny I appologize. While I meant what I said, that her marketing technique did not appeal to me, I could have said that in a less blunt and more friendly manner. Or better yet, I could have kept my big mouth shut. Mischka in his wiseness, strives to keep this a friendly place for all, and I was probably close to him slapping me upside the head for forgetting it.

OneDahlia · February 13, 2012

Penny's style is not my style, but I admire her for her quick corrections and pleasant response -- a lot of people would have been more defensive.

Also, living on the edge of the South, I have to point out that this country (and continent!) has such huge cultural differences from one end to another. I noticed that a lot of the most disapproving posters are from the pretty far North. Maybe Penny's style will enable her to introduce heirlooms to communities where there's little variety in terms of what's expected from a tomato, who knows?

Petronius_II · February 13, 2012

Previous post deleted by myself. After careful consideration, I decided this one was treading a bit too close to stepping over the "Politics and Religion" boundary. Or something like that. -- PA2

PennyM · February 13, 2012

Hey Gang,
Thanks again for all of the input.
I've given a lengthy answer but it has not been approved by the Moderators.
It is not fair if I can't answer the Thread honestly.
This is my First Amendment right.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny

**Mischka** · October 20, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomatoville: Contact Us

The following message was sent to you via the Tomatoville® Gardening Forums Contact Us form by PennyM ( mailto:pennym@sc.rr.com ).

--------------------------------

Hi Moderators.
I am very frustrated now...
After bending over backwards to correct ALL Tomato name change data that you brought to our attention in 2011...although very slight in most cases...I continue to be edited out and refused access to some forums.
Like the 'Members websites' forum.
Last year Mischka said that we needed to modify all incorrect names of varieties.
We've complied.
I have seen information continually contradicted by one 'Authorty' vs. another...for example simple things like if a Tomato is determinate...or indetermiante. I have the documentation on this.
Or how many days to maturity for certain varieties....between the alleged 'experts' in your forum. I have documentation of this.
After ardently working with Tatania and Craig to comply with all of the recommended name changes....although minor in nature...I'm still being blocked out of ceretain forums.
I don't want to hear about 'Copyrighted pictures'..unless EVERY Vendor in your recommended vendors list is held to the same standards. THEY ARE NOT!
I have manY pics of tomatoes on my Website that are exclusively ours.
And some of the few in question...have incorrect information on where they originated.
In one instance..IT IS OUR ORINGINAL PICTURE...that another seed vendor copied AND TOOK CREDIT FOR. And you've questioned the source of the picture.
We have documentation for this.
I feel that one Moderator in particular is blocking me out of even answering comments about our Penny's Tomato website.
I've consulted with our legal team and they feel that we are being treated unfairly.
Tomato-villians have repeatedly shown us support in most cases.
I'm asking that ALL of my submitted post be put up...if you feel you need to delete a line that doesn't comply with your regulations...do so.
But we're making a plea that we not be edited out completely.
I want to be a positive contributer to the Tomatoville forums. But I refuse to be treated unfairly.
When we get past this all of my correspondense can be potitive.
I have not recieved one answer back to my several emails to contact me or answer an issue.
Can we reslove this together...or should I take a legal recourse?
Thanks for your consideration,
Penny

--------------------------------

Referring Page: http://www.tomatoville.com/faq.php
IP Address: 98.122.27.184
User Name: PennyM
User ID: 8172
Email: pennym@sc.rr.com

February 12, 2012	#50
Mischka Tomatoville® Administrator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Bay State Posts: 3,207	Everyone here is equally entitled to share their opinion, without fear of being criticized for it. We're not going to tolerate personal attacks, period. __________________ Mischka One last word of farewell, Dear Master and Mistress. Whenever you visit my grave, say to yourselves with regret but also with happiness in your hearts at the remembrance of my long happy life with you: "Here lies one who loved us and whom we loved." No matter how deep my sleep I shall hear you, and not all the power of death can keep my spirit from wagging a grateful tail.

February 12, 2012	#54
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Isn't it a great country when we all have choices - what to watch, what to buy, where to buy it, what to think of it! To each their own....and whatever works, I guess __________________ Craig

February 13, 2012	#58
Petronius_II Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM - Zone 7a Posts: 209	Previous post deleted by myself. After careful consideration, I decided this one was treading a bit too close to stepping over the "Politics and Religion" boundary. Or something like that. -- PA2 Last edited by Petronius_II; February 13, 2012 at 04:55 PM. Reason: As explained above.

February 13, 2012	#59
PennyM LIAR AND THIEF Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 45	Hey Gang, Thanks again for all of the input. I've given a lengthy answer but it has not been approved by the Moderators. It is not fair if I can't answer the Thread honestly. This is my First Amendment right. Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny Last edited by PennyM; February 13, 2012 at 04:06 PM. Reason: First amendment right

February 10, 2012	#46
FiguredOut Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 17	You do realize photos and pictures fall under copyright laws? It only takes one person to say, "Hey, I took that photo, now this person is using to to generate a profit."

February 11, 2012	#47
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	Well I have read the whole thread, watched the videos, seen the triple rated tomato which isn't and I am sorry but despite seeing Penny changing the names of incorrect tomatoes I can truthfully say I would not buy from this site. It doesn't feel right to me ..too much rah rah rah and I wouldn't feel confident even if I had come accross the site without this thread..sorry Penny but too much hard sell for me. Just to add, she pushes organic which is fine, says she grows her own..but I could not find anywhere she states she is registered organic, does she not have to be to say that if she grows her own. I could be wrong.. XX Jeannine

February 12, 2012	#49
kenny_j Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: holly michigan Posts: 380	Jeannine, I have to agree with you, and I am by no means a prude, I can get down and dirty with the best of anybody, and like many men have watched my share of porn, but mixing sex and my love of gardening, and especially tomatoes , makes me feel kinda ill. Sorry penny, hope it works for you, sex has sold many a product I know. But doesn't inspire me to purchase anything when it comes to gardening.

February 12, 2012	#53
kenny_j Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: holly michigan Posts: 380	Should have never entered this arena as I stated in my original post. I did see the full context before deleted, and I take no offense. I didn't mean to criticize Penny, and I hope she does all right. Actually thought I was being helpful. I can be a typical male pig, I admitted that. Just saying sex appeal does not work for me in marketing veggies. I watched a video that showed deformed tomatoes that looked like sexual organs to me, and it did not make me want to run out and eat a freshly picked tomato. If it works for some one else great. My last post on this thread, there are more important topics for sure.

February 12, 2012	#55
livinonfaith Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina Posts: 1,332	Have to admit, that I'm still (just barely) on the negative side of the fence about this site. (WARNING: long drawn out, possibly assinine opinions. Proceed at your own risk!) I'm going to give my full two cents worth, not because I think my opinion is all that important, but because I suspect others may either agree or disagree and that it may help Penny make the site better than it is. Penny does seem to be a very open and adaptive person who is trying to balance making money, providing information and having some fun doing it all. So this is not a critique of Penny herself, but of some things that I personally like and dislike about the site. Negatives first, just to get them over with. The tomato/squash ★★★★★ thing, (they won't let me type the correct anatomical name ) just seems like false advertising. It's a squash. Why call it a tomato? Maybe it's a joke? It seems like several of us are not only not getting it, but having a negative reaction, so she may want to reevaluate how it's presented? Some of the info does not seems to be correct or seems to be exaggerated. One example is that I don't think most would describe indeterminate cherry tomatoes as "smaller bush type plants" that are perfect for containers or small spaces. My indeterminate cherries (and most of Penny's cherries are also indeterminate) grew all over the place and I wouldn't recommend them for container plantings. Determinate cherries, on the other hand, might be great for containers. (As would most any determinate tomatoes or dwarfs.) Tomato horn worms do not lay eggs until they have turned into their adult moth form. Those hornworms that have eggs laid on them by wasps will not make it to the moth stage and therefore will not lay eggs. Does the tree tomato really average a bushel of tomatoes? If so, Wow! It honestly sounds too good to be true and there is nothing on the site to back it up, so I will tend to form a negative opinion with that. If it does, then I would love to see some documentation and reviews from actual clients, otherwise it just brings down the believability of the site. (That may be my cynical side, but I don't think I'm the only one who is wary of these types of claims.) Honestly, my real biggy, and others have also brought this up, is using the photos of others without permission. As a graphic artist, I have to say that this issue, more than any other, will keep me from buying anything or recommending the site until it is corrected. I suspect that Penny may not understand the importance of this. (as many people don't) It is stealing, plain and simple. This in the only thing that I do feel is a major issue and hasn't been addressed yet. The irony is that the photos that seem to be Penny's own photos are actually as good or better than the ones that aren't hers. Hopefully, this will be corrected quickly. If that one major flaw were corrected, then there are also many positives about the site. It is obvious that a lot of love went into creating it and as a southern girl, I appreciate a bit of showmanship and humor! The erotic veggie doesn't bother me one bit as long as it is accurately marketed. I most appreciate the fact that she is trying to educate, even if some of the facts are a bit off. (That's something that, I'm sure, a lot of really knowledgeable people here would be happy to help her with!) Also, we have first hand testimony that her product and her service are quite good which are two of the most important priorities of any seed company. Okay, that's my fifty cents. (I went way over two cents) Anyone else?

February 13, 2012	#57
OneDahlia Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 7a NO. VA. Posts: 202	Penny's style is not my style, but I admire her for her quick corrections and pleasant response -- a lot of people would have been more defensive. Also, living on the edge of the South, I have to point out that this country (and continent!) has such huge cultural differences from one end to another. I noticed that a lot of the most disapproving posters are from the pretty far North. Maybe Penny's style will enable her to introduce heirlooms to communities where there's little variety in terms of what's expected from a tomato, who knows?