Customs confiscated entire order!

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Andrey_BY

There are so many people bringing seeds with them while travel over the world. So it would be ridiculous to have any restrictions for small lot of seeds sending by post...

From my 15 years experience of sending seeds abroad I want to admit that there has been more problems with local customs to let the seeds go to USA or elsewhere abroad and only a few times concerning import of small lot of seeds in bubblers or regular business envelopes.
They has been following quite old restriction list from other countries and it's more like a game to catch or let it go by certain customs officials here... All I can do is to make envelope rather thin and not suspicious for inspection. You can't prove them nothing and USDA permit means nothing when they see it. They are almost untouchable here...
So I should be clever and tricky

Glue on seed art on paper they see the art and look through the seeds.

You could spell out each variety in seeds for that given variety.

Happy Birthday Galina.
Worth

[cwavec]

Carolyn (and others),
In case you are still looking, as this thread started almost two months ago.

(Carolyn) I'm looking at your post of April 1 with a lot of info on the nargs.org
help sheet for getting a permit and some of the other things you've said about
getting seeds from here, there and everywhere without hindrance.

First of all, I'd like to add that I have done much the same on a couple of
occasions and find it hard to disagree with you. I'll do it again if I'm really
forced into it and there's no other way.

I'd like to ask one question though that could serve as a general example.

Do you (or did you) have any ash trees near where you live?
How are they doing? OK that's Q2 but maybe you get the drift.
Anyway, I live in northern Allegheny County, PA, in Marshall Township.
The adjoining municipality is Cranberry Township in Butler County.
Perhaps you've heard of these areas. Between the two of them, they
are essentially the epicenter of the disaster that has befallen our ash
trees. Over the last few years I have watched all the ash trees in my
yard and in my neighborhood die and fall. It is a grim and disconcerting
view.

I suppose no one really knows how the Emerald Ash Borer arrived but
it could have been in some plant material or mud or something that
slipped past inspection. Or maybe at that time nobody knew what to
look for. That's just one example but the result of that situation and
a few others is that our forests are in pretty bad shape and will never
again hold the variety of species they used to have.

Another example you will all remember because it affected all of you
personally is the infestation of tomato late blight that hit the northeast
US beginning in 2009. I endured it for three years. That was caused by
plant material that was shifted around in trucks bringing tomato plants
from down south to the stores of Home Depot, Lowe's and the like.

All right, enough of the pulpit. You get the point. Anyway, I've had some
French tomato seeds. Yes, Carolyn, I am "that guy", sneezer2 from
another forum and now cwavec here just because the email service I
used has closed, so I don't keep that username.

My seeds have gotten old and this year I've had trouble getting them to
germinate. They mostly have but it took a long time and I need a fresh
supply. Yes, I'd like to go to Paris to get some and then mail them back
incognito. I would not feel the slightest bit guilty over that because they
would all be from one of the biggest and longest existing seed companies
in the world (Vilmorin). Moreover, they would have been in hermetically
sealed packs and would have been subject to EU phyto requirements
anyway which, in my view are even more stringent than ours. That would
be one way, but it's costly and time consuming.

Another way would be to order on line from a European (French) seed
distributor. Unfortunately, almost all of them know the drill by now and
will not send an order to the US. The one exception I know of is
ducrettet.com which, unless they have stopped, will actually go and get
the phytosanitary certificate, even for one small packet of seeds. I did
that, too, one time and they charged me about $10 for the phyto. I need
to add by the way, that it was a very impressive looking document. I was
almost ready to frame it and hang it on my wall. Would have looked
a bit odd though in the midst of my wife's grandkid pics. They are a
highly professional company and do a good job but they are basically a
supplier of seed to farmers and don't have much variety.

So, I have two choices - subterfuge or the Small Lots of Seed program.
I'm in the midst of applying for the permit. It's cumbersome,
no doubt about that. And I have some objections to the way it is run but
I'm going ahead with it.

I've run into some discrepancies at this point but the process is not
all that difficult. I think the assessment that "Their site and the software
sucks" is not really accurate. It is a fairly standard online application
procedure. If you are not used to this sort of thing it can be trying
but what I have seen so far is pretty straightforward. I've seen worse,
much worse, and I conclude that this is not so bad.It requires a fair
bit of attention. It's not impossible. You do have to think about
terminology and what is wanted at each step.

Here, I was getting into describing some points about the online
permit application. It's getting late; I don't want to do all that right
now and, in fact it probably belongs in another post. Since I am
going to be filling this application, I might (stressing "might")
be willing to write some sort of description or "tip sheet" on how to
get through it. If anyone is interested, please add a reply giving some
idea whether such a thing is even wanted and how widely it may
be used. Let me know whether I would be wasting my time.

[pmcgrady]

Speaking of Ash trees... A forester that just went thru 360 acres of family owned timber recommended to cut down every Ash tree on the property. Said with in 5 years, most will be dead...
with in 10 years all will be dead. Ash boards/lumber will be rare in the future.

[aftermidnight]

As to the Small Lot permit, I sent seed to the U.S. last year using it. Without looking at the permit regs. I was allowed to send up to 50 pkts. each packet containing no more than 50 seeds or so many grams ( can't pick the amount off the top of my head at the moment).
In the bubble envelope I enclosed a list of each variety, who they were being sent to and from who. Each pkt. (in a clear zip lock baggie) of seed contained a slip saying who to and who from plus the variety, genus and species. On the outside of the envelope I stuck on the yellow label provided, which had to be covered with scotch tape or similar for protection, a customs declaration declaring what was in the envelope, and the address of the person I was sending to. They arrived at their destination within a week, I don't think the envelope was even opened for inspection.

This was a first time sending this way but it worked out well, will be sending seed again this fall using the permit, what's a little paper work among friends .

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by cwavec

. . .Here, I was getting into describing some points about the online
permit application. It's getting late; I don't want to do all that right
now and, in fact it probably belongs in another post. Since I am
going to be filling this application, I might (stressing "might")
be willing to write some sort of description or "tip sheet" on how to
get through it. If anyone is interested, please add a reply giving some
idea whether such a thing is even wanted and how widely it may
be used. Let me know whether I would be wasting my time.

If this is the same free-but-required " "PPQ Form 587" which is a permit to import small amounts of seeds without requiring a phytosanitary permit " referenced in brokenbar's Feb 3 thread

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39541

referenced in post 40 above, I'd be interested in anything you have time to say about the process.

Even if it's something else, I'd be interested, as that would indicate that it's important to get the right permit for particular purposes.

I expect many others would be interested, as well . . . probably you'd never know how many, as it does seem that anyone getting seeds from any other country who doesn't want to get themselves or their seed sender into a hassle with Customs really should get the permit . . . and get the right one, so they're only getting what they need for a small number of packets, not what's needed for large or commercial importers.

[aftermidnight]

On the permit I used it says...
Permit to Import Plants and Plant Products
Regulated by 7 CFR 319. 37

[bower]

Just a note about swapping tomatoes or other vegetable seeds between Canada and the US. As I commented earlier, I was told by the post office here that there is no restriction, simply declare the contents of the envelope as "vegetable seeds". That's what I did and it arrived with no problem.

Seeds of other species, trees, flowers etcetera is a different story, because some of them are invasive in one area or another or because there are diseases at issue. I could see getting the permit and doing the paperwork for something like that, even between Canada and US.

Incidentally, I have Pennsylvania Ash growing here from seed I imported from the US twenty years ago (with a lot of paperwork!). Growing slowly but at least one of them has finally started to take off. One day perhaps I'll be able to return the favour, send seeds back when that borer has bored itself out of habitat.

[feldon30]

It all boils down to that since 9/11, anything to do with Homeland Security, and that includes anything to do with the border, mail, customs, etc. is getting buckets full of money that must be spent or it has to be returned. If someone told me I could get millions of extra dollars in my department, I'd say where to I sign?

[amideutch]

There are seed borne diseases such as tospoviruses that are easy to ship into areas that do not have that particular disease.

Went to the University of Florida IFAS Extension Site (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp134) on Tospoviruses and the section on Biology and transmission the last sentence stated

Seed transmission is not known to occur.

Ami

[NarnianGarden]

The same challenge applies to the EU. I have succesfully ordered seeds from outside the EU, and swapped seeds with folks in other parts of the globe, but I think it's always a risk. Small letters are more likely to pass unnoticed, but .. you never know.
I can understand that authorities do want to keep diseases outside the borders. What's interesting is that EU encompasses a large area with different climate zones and huge differences in flora, fauna and diseases, of course - and nothing stops those diseases from spreading inside the toll free region...
I don't know legal it is to bring seeds from, let's say Russia, but - it happens a lot. Incidentally, the same seeds are commercially available in Estonia and other eastern EU countries ... so I don't see the difference between bying an Aelita packet in Russia and bringing it in/sending via mail, OR bying Aelita seeds in Estonia and bringing them with me... The issue is that the directives regarding private gardening and what's allowed are up to interpretation - and usually common sense triumphs.

[LoreD]

Originally Posted by bower

Incidentally, I have Pennsylvania Ash growing here from seed I imported from the US twenty years ago (with a lot of paperwork!). Growing slowly but at least one of them has finally started to take off. One day perhaps I'll be able to return the favour, send seeds back when that borer has bored itself out of habitat.

The emerald ash borer, which is destroying ash trees in a large swath of the nation, has apparently spread to a different tree, according to a researcher at Wright State University. Professor Don Cipollini has found that the invasive green beetle has apparently begun to attack white fringetree (Chionanthus virginicus).

White fringetree is native to the United States and grows wild from New Jersey south to Florida and west to Oklahoma and Texas. It is also a popular ornamental tree that has been planted in other parts of the country.

“It appears that emerald ash borer is eating more than ash trees,” Cipollini said. “It may have a wider host range than we ever thought in the first place, or it is adapting to utilize new hosts. This biological invasion is really something to worry about. It’s having drastic ecological and economic consequences, and you can’t always predict what’s going to happen.”

[PhilaGardener]

"Emerald ash borer probably arrived in the United States on solid wood packing material carried in cargo ships or airplanes originating in its native Asia" (Source: http://www.emeraldashborer.info/)

[Worth1]

I watched some videos of people in third world countries working in saw mills and lumber manufacturing.
Right out in the jungle little bare foot kids working.
There s no telling want we have in store for us when it comes to unwanted critters.

Worth

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by PhilaGardener

"Emerald ash borer probably arrived in the United States on solid wood packing material carried in cargo ships or airplanes originating in its native Asia" (Source: http://www.emeraldashborer.info/)

When I was a teenager in El Paso my parents bought an inexpensive bedroom set for me, constructed of some form of pine. After a few years I started hearing a skritching sound in the dead of night. Unable to localize it we seriously considering poltergeists. Eventually, I found a large borer emerging from the edge of the 3 cm plank top of the dresser. Body about 3/4 in long with longer antennae.

The point is, that while I can't recall exactly how many, it was many years after the boards were milled - at least five.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

When I was a teenager in El Paso my parents bought an inexpensive bedroom set for me, constructed of some form of pine. After a few years I started hearing a skritching sound in the dead of night. Unable to localize it we seriously considering poltergeists. Eventually, I found a large borer emerging from the edge of the 3 cm plank top of the dresser. Body about 3/4 in long with longer antennae.

The point is, that while I can't recall exactly how many, it was many years after the boards were milled - at least five.

This isn't uncommon.
We built a set of cabinet doors out of ash years ago and the wood had beetle larva in it.
The counter tops would have little piles of sawdust gather on them.
We had to make the entire set over again something close to 100 cabinet doors.
From then on we inspected all of our rough lumber for holes.
Here it shows how they can feed in wood for up to 12 years.

Worth