April 2, 2016 | #46 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Den of Drunken Fools
Posts: 38,539
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Quote:
You could spell out each variety in seeds for that given variety. Happy Birthday Galina. Worth |
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May 20, 2016 | #47 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Getting Permit
Carolyn (and others),
In case you are still looking, as this thread started almost two months ago. (Carolyn) I'm looking at your post of April 1 with a lot of info on the nargs.org help sheet for getting a permit and some of the other things you've said about getting seeds from here, there and everywhere without hindrance. First of all, I'd like to add that I have done much the same on a couple of occasions and find it hard to disagree with you. I'll do it again if I'm really forced into it and there's no other way. I'd like to ask one question though that could serve as a general example. Do you (or did you) have any ash trees near where you live? How are they doing? OK that's Q2 but maybe you get the drift. Anyway, I live in northern Allegheny County, PA, in Marshall Township. The adjoining municipality is Cranberry Township in Butler County. Perhaps you've heard of these areas. Between the two of them, they are essentially the epicenter of the disaster that has befallen our ash trees. Over the last few years I have watched all the ash trees in my yard and in my neighborhood die and fall. It is a grim and disconcerting view. I suppose no one really knows how the Emerald Ash Borer arrived but it could have been in some plant material or mud or something that slipped past inspection. Or maybe at that time nobody knew what to look for. That's just one example but the result of that situation and a few others is that our forests are in pretty bad shape and will never again hold the variety of species they used to have. Another example you will all remember because it affected all of you personally is the infestation of tomato late blight that hit the northeast US beginning in 2009. I endured it for three years. That was caused by plant material that was shifted around in trucks bringing tomato plants from down south to the stores of Home Depot, Lowe's and the like. All right, enough of the pulpit. You get the point. Anyway, I've had some French tomato seeds. Yes, Carolyn, I am "that guy", sneezer2 from another forum and now cwavec here just because the email service I used has closed, so I don't keep that username. My seeds have gotten old and this year I've had trouble getting them to germinate. They mostly have but it took a long time and I need a fresh supply. Yes, I'd like to go to Paris to get some and then mail them back incognito. I would not feel the slightest bit guilty over that because they would all be from one of the biggest and longest existing seed companies in the world (Vilmorin). Moreover, they would have been in hermetically sealed packs and would have been subject to EU phyto requirements anyway which, in my view are even more stringent than ours. That would be one way, but it's costly and time consuming. Another way would be to order on line from a European (French) seed distributor. Unfortunately, almost all of them know the drill by now and will not send an order to the US. The one exception I know of is ducrettet.com which, unless they have stopped, will actually go and get the phytosanitary certificate, even for one small packet of seeds. I did that, too, one time and they charged me about $10 for the phyto. I need to add by the way, that it was a very impressive looking document. I was almost ready to frame it and hang it on my wall. Would have looked a bit odd though in the midst of my wife's grandkid pics. They are a highly professional company and do a good job but they are basically a supplier of seed to farmers and don't have much variety. So, I have two choices - subterfuge or the Small Lots of Seed program. I'm in the midst of applying for the permit. It's cumbersome, no doubt about that. And I have some objections to the way it is run but I'm going ahead with it. I've run into some discrepancies at this point but the process is not all that difficult. I think the assessment that "Their site and the software sucks" is not really accurate. It is a fairly standard online application procedure. If you are not used to this sort of thing it can be trying but what I have seen so far is pretty straightforward. I've seen worse, much worse, and I conclude that this is not so bad.It requires a fair bit of attention. It's not impossible. You do have to think about terminology and what is wanted at each step. Here, I was getting into describing some points about the online permit application. It's getting late; I don't want to do all that right now and, in fact it probably belongs in another post. Since I am going to be filling this application, I might (stressing "might") be willing to write some sort of description or "tip sheet" on how to get through it. If anyone is interested, please add a reply giving some idea whether such a thing is even wanted and how widely it may be used. Let me know whether I would be wasting my time. |
May 20, 2016 | #48 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,836
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Speaking of Ash trees... A forester that just went thru 360 acres of family owned timber recommended to cut down every Ash tree on the property. Said with in 5 years, most will be dead...
with in 10 years all will be dead. Ash boards/lumber will be rare in the future. |
May 21, 2016 | #49 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver Island B.C.
Posts: 116
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As to the Small Lot permit, I sent seed to the U.S. last year using it. Without looking at the permit regs. I was allowed to send up to 50 pkts. each packet containing no more than 50 seeds or so many grams ( can't pick the amount off the top of my head at the moment).
In the bubble envelope I enclosed a list of each variety, who they were being sent to and from who. Each pkt. (in a clear zip lock baggie) of seed contained a slip saying who to and who from plus the variety, genus and species. On the outside of the envelope I stuck on the yellow label provided, which had to be covered with scotch tape or similar for protection, a customs declaration declaring what was in the envelope, and the address of the person I was sending to. They arrived at their destination within a week, I don't think the envelope was even opened for inspection. This was a first time sending this way but it worked out well, will be sending seed again this fall using the permit, what's a little paper work among friends . Last edited by aftermidnight; May 21, 2016 at 09:27 AM. |
May 21, 2016 | #50 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 759
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Quote:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39541 referenced in post 40 above, I'd be interested in anything you have time to say about the process. Even if it's something else, I'd be interested, as that would indicate that it's important to get the right permit for particular purposes. I expect many others would be interested, as well . . . probably you'd never know how many, as it does seem that anyone getting seeds from any other country who doesn't want to get themselves or their seed sender into a hassle with Customs really should get the permit . . . and get the right one, so they're only getting what they need for a small number of packets, not what's needed for large or commercial importers. |
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May 21, 2016 | #51 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver Island B.C.
Posts: 116
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On the permit I used it says...
Permit to Import Plants and Plant Products Regulated by 7 CFR 319. 37 |
May 21, 2016 | #52 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,794
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Just a note about swapping tomatoes or other vegetable seeds between Canada and the US. As I commented earlier, I was told by the post office here that there is no restriction, simply declare the contents of the envelope as "vegetable seeds". That's what I did and it arrived with no problem.
Seeds of other species, trees, flowers etcetera is a different story, because some of them are invasive in one area or another or because there are diseases at issue. I could see getting the permit and doing the paperwork for something like that, even between Canada and US. Incidentally, I have Pennsylvania Ash growing here from seed I imported from the US twenty years ago (with a lot of paperwork!). Growing slowly but at least one of them has finally started to take off. One day perhaps I'll be able to return the favour, send seeds back when that borer has bored itself out of habitat. |
May 21, 2016 | #53 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 5,346
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It all boils down to that since 9/11, anything to do with Homeland Security, and that includes anything to do with the border, mail, customs, etc. is getting buckets full of money that must be spent or it has to be returned. If someone told me I could get millions of extra dollars in my department, I'd say where to I sign?
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May 22, 2016 | #54 | ||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
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Quote:
Quote:
Ami
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!' |
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May 22, 2016 | #55 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Finland, EU
Posts: 2,550
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The same challenge applies to the EU. I have succesfully ordered seeds from outside the EU, and swapped seeds with folks in other parts of the globe, but I think it's always a risk. Small letters are more likely to pass unnoticed, but .. you never know.
I can understand that authorities do want to keep diseases outside the borders. What's interesting is that EU encompasses a large area with different climate zones and huge differences in flora, fauna and diseases, of course - and nothing stops those diseases from spreading inside the toll free region... I don't know legal it is to bring seeds from, let's say Russia, but - it happens a lot. Incidentally, the same seeds are commercially available in Estonia and other eastern EU countries ... so I don't see the difference between bying an Aelita packet in Russia and bringing it in/sending via mail, OR bying Aelita seeds in Estonia and bringing them with me... The issue is that the directives regarding private gardening and what's allowed are up to interpretation - and usually common sense triumphs. |
June 25, 2016 | #56 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 306
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Quote:
White fringetree is native to the United States and grows wild from New Jersey south to Florida and west to Oklahoma and Texas. It is also a popular ornamental tree that has been planted in other parts of the country. “It appears that emerald ash borer is eating more than ash trees,” Cipollini said. “It may have a wider host range than we ever thought in the first place, or it is adapting to utilize new hosts. This biological invasion is really something to worry about. It’s having drastic ecological and economic consequences, and you can’t always predict what’s going to happen.”
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Its not what you get to keep in life, its what you get to give away. |
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June 25, 2016 | #57 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,940
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"Emerald ash borer probably arrived in the United States on solid wood packing material carried in cargo ships or airplanes originating in its native Asia" (Source: http://www.emeraldashborer.info/)
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June 25, 2016 | #58 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Den of Drunken Fools
Posts: 38,539
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I watched some videos of people in third world countries working in saw mills and lumber manufacturing.
Right out in the jungle little bare foot kids working. There s no telling want we have in store for us when it comes to unwanted critters. Worth |
June 25, 2016 | #59 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
The point is, that while I can't recall exactly how many, it was many years after the boards were milled - at least five. |
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June 25, 2016 | #60 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Den of Drunken Fools
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Quote:
We built a set of cabinet doors out of ash years ago and the wood had beetle larva in it. The counter tops would have little piles of sawdust gather on them. We had to make the entire set over again something close to 100 cabinet doors. From then on we inspected all of our rough lumber for holes. Here it shows how they can feed in wood for up to 12 years. Worth |
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