AWS with mini-float - Page 4

luigiwu · June 30, 2013

I'm trying to do the same thing right now with my 5gallon buckets. How did this finally work for you? Does this idea work on the siphon idea? Is that how the water gets delivered from the main float container to the others equally?

I've bought my 1/4" tubing and am trying to figure out how to rig it up to the float container. Did I understand you correctly that you used a grommet and just stuck the tubing in after that?

elight · June 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigiwu

I've bought my 1/4" tubing and am trying to figure out how to rig it up to the float container. Did I understand you correctly that you used a grommet and just stuck the tubing in after that?

There are two connections on the float container: one coming from the water reservoir, and one going to the grow buckets.

For the first connection, completely unscrew both the compression fitting (careful, there are little pieces inside that you don't want to lose)! and the nut on the stem of the float valve. Drill a hole on the sidewall of the float container, and insert the stem through it. Put the nut back on and tighten to hold the float in place. Now, insert the tubing through the compression fitting (and all of its interior pieces), and into the middle of the valve stem. Screw back on the compression fitting.

For the output tube, I used 1/4" rubber grommet procured from a hydroponics supply store. They look like this:

Again, drill a hole of the proper size (measure the width of the piece that will be inserted, and then start perhaps one drill bit size down), and then insert the grommet. Then, insert the tubing. You may have to work it a little bit, but it will go.

Let me know if you need additional pictures or help. Good luck!

Edit: To answer your question about the siphon... I'm not sure if this is technically considered a siphon or not. But keeping all of the post-float tubing below the float level, it removes the need to prime the lines. I felt that this was a major problem with the simple GlobalBuckets system (if the buckets ever ran dry, you'd have to re-prime). But it achieves the same thing by using atmospheric pressure to find the common level.

luigiwu · July 1, 2013

Elight, thanks for answering!
To "prime" is exactly the issue I was asking. I'm using 1/4" tubing and I"m not sure how to prime the lines to work as a "siphon" if that was the idea...

Anyways, I've been studying your picture and it seems like you have your connection point super low, like lower than the overfill hole. Why is that?

I have an idea to simply push the "leg/stem" of my barbed-T connection into a hole higher than the overfill hole and have that fill my reservoir. I wonder if it would work...

elight · July 1, 2013

The connection must be made under the water level for my system to work. If any part of the tubing is above the water level (as it certainly would be if any part of the tubing is above the overflow hole), then there will not be any siphoning action. Instead, you will have an air gap in the part of the tubing that is above the water level, and the two containers on either side of that gap will function separately. When the containers are connected by a continuous water connection (siphon or otherwise), then they function essentially as one. Keeping the connection points low helps guard against this.

Your idea would work if: 1) the reservoir (or float container if you're using one) maintained a water level higher than the hole, and 2) you were only manually using this method to fill up the container every so often. Certainly a system like this would not be automatic. I have literally not touched my system (or its water) in over 3 weeks.

Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense and I'll do my best to explain or draw more diagrams or take more pictures.

luigiwu · July 2, 2013

Hey Elight,

The connection doesn't "need" to be under the water level, correct? You just need one end of the tubing to be under the water level to maintain the vaccuum in the tubing, right? And of course that would be the easiest way to make sure the tubing is underwater being at the lowest water point.

See, I'm trying to avoid having to modify in the reservoir of the buckets, in case I don't get it right, meaning water-tight. That 1/4"grommet you showed me - is that installed from the outside of the bucket? Because right now, I don't think I can get inside the reservoir bucket to do installs.

My main question, how do you 'prime' your lines? Just let gravity do its thing from the reservoir bucket? I've posted my humble 8-bucket garden in my other thread.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=28961

It sounds like you like your system and its working well for you? If I can replicate it, there is hope for me!

elight · July 2, 2013

You are correct in a sense - it doesn't *need* to be... but if it's not, then it loses the self-priming property. By keeping all of the tubing below the water line, if the buckets (or reservoir) ever run dry, you just need to fill the reservoir back up again, and water will start flowing. But if any part of the tubing is above the water line, you'll need to prime it. The idea of sucking on the tubing that has been filled with stale, dirty water didn't seem too appealing to me.

So yes, I let gravity/atmospheric pressure do their thing to prime the line. But this only works if all of the tubing is below the water level.

Yes, the grommets do go on from the outside.

My recommendation: get a couple of grommets and some containers (cheap small plastic storage boxes work), connect them together, and simulate the different setups.

FISHINNUT · March 11, 2014

I'm going to try this system and use a rain barrel for my reservoir. It will be connected to a rain gutter. Hopefully mother nature will provide sufficient water. Will be using two 31 gal earthtainers and two 5 gal buckets. Not sure about a separate container to house the float valve or adding a valve to a earthtainer.

elight · April 2, 2014

Having now used this system for the third year in a row, I strongly recommend housing the float valve in its own, clear container. That way, if anything ever goes wrong and the water level drops, you'll be able to see it immediately, and access the float valve for adjustment. I've had a few occasions where the valve just needed to be wiggled a bit to clear an obstruction. If it's the bottom of an EarthTainer, I don't know how you would ever access it.

Adding the "control reservoir" with the float valve amounts to a $1 plastic container from Target, and an extra $0.50 grommet.

Good luck!

FISHINNUT · April 5, 2014

Separate water valve container it is..

FISHINNUT · April 10, 2014

I plan on using a separate reservoir with a float valve however I am going to daisy chain the earthtainers. Water reservoir to float valve reservoir to earthtainer 1 which is linked to earthtainer 2 linked to 5 gallon bucket 1 to 5 gallon bucket 2. Hoping this will work. Only problem may be water line plugging up?? Thoughts.

FISHINNUT · April 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by elight

Time for an update! My system is complete and my plants (except for one) are planted. Everything seems to be in working order. The gist of the setup is this: a main water reservoir (33 gallon trash can) connected to an intermediate reservoir (small plastic storage box) with a mini-float, attached to the SWCs. The tubing that goes from the intermediate reservoir to the SWCs connects to the containers at the lowest possible point. It is important that the tubing remain below the water level at all times, or the water will not make its way through to the containers.

Here's a big picture of my setup:

Here you can see the connection from the main reservoir to the intermediate reservoir with the float, and then out to the SWCs:

This one shows the close-up view of the connection to an EarthTainer. The 1/4" poly tubing is simply inserted directly into a 1/4" rubber grommet. The grommets were purchased from a local hydroponics store for about $1 each. Each container also has an inline shut-off valve that services it, in case I ever want to take a container "offline" (these also cost about $1 each, or cheaper if purchased online):

Here you can see three 5-gallon buckets chained together (although one has a pepper plant, I couldn't think of any easy way to prevent back-flow and cross-watering between containers... we'll see what happens):

So, that's it. All of my tests so far have been successful. We'll see what happens when it gets hot and these plants start drinking! Thanks to everyone on this thread who offered their help and suggestions over the past two months!

Why is your valve reservoir elevated above the earthtainers? I would think that being above the earthtainers the water would constantly run because the valve wouldn't shut.

elight · April 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHINNUT

Why is your valve reservoir elevated above the earthtainers? I would think that being above the earthtainers the water would constantly run because the valve wouldn't shut.

I have daisy-chained everything as you describe and haven't had much of a problem. I did have a problem my first year with root growth down into the reservoir and eventually into the tubing, which clogged things up. It didn't happen last year, though (a double-layer of landscape fabric helps). It's important to check each reservoir on a somewhat-regular basis (maybe once a week) to make sure they are getting water. You can either use a cork-type contraption like in Raybo's instructions, or just look down through your fill pipe with a flashlight.

As for the elevation of the float valve container, I'm not exactly sure (that was two apartments ago). Maybe without it the water level in the float container was too high and, with the valve, the lid couldn't be put on. Currently I have the float container on the same level as my EarthTainers without any issue, though, so I wouldn't read too much into that photo, and would just do whatever seems to work for you.

FISHINNUT · April 10, 2014

Thanks

FISHINNUT · April 13, 2014

Tested the system with the float valve in a separate container and one earthtainer. Adjusted float for a 3 1/2 inch level in the valve container. Did not use a barrel for the test run but hooked up to water faucet. Even with the greater water pressure the earthtainer took a very long time to fill and never reached the 3 1/2 inch mark. I had leveled both containers for the test. My concern is that when I use a barrel for supply and add additional containers to the system, the water supply will not keep up with the water demand, especially in the heat of the summer. Any thoughts??

luigiwu · April 13, 2014

Well, is the float-container level with the earthcontainer? If the earthcontainer is sitting say 1inch higher than the float-container, then the water in the earthcontainer will be say 2-1/2 inches high (even though the float-container is 3.5 inches high.) Does that make sense?

And I would not be worried about the rate of water delivery. You'll never need it to fully fill up the reservoir again. Its only replacing what the plants take up.

So this year I'm switching over all my containers to Larry Hall's rain gutter grow system. The plumbing is far easier imo.

July 2, 2013	#50
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	Hey Elight, The connection doesn't "need" to be under the water level, correct? You just need one end of the tubing to be under the water level to maintain the vaccuum in the tubing, right? And of course that would be the easiest way to make sure the tubing is underwater being at the lowest water point. See, I'm trying to avoid having to modify in the reservoir of the buckets, in case I don't get it right, meaning water-tight. That 1/4"grommet you showed me - is that installed from the outside of the bucket? Because right now, I don't think I can get inside the reservoir bucket to do installs. My main question, how do you 'prime' your lines? Just let gravity do its thing from the reservoir bucket? I've posted my humble 8-bucket garden in my other thread. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=28961 It sounds like you like your system and its working well for you? If I can replicate it, there is hope for me! Last edited by luigiwu; July 2, 2013 at 07:22 AM.

June 30, 2013	#46
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	I'm trying to do the same thing right now with my 5gallon buckets. How did this finally work for you? Does this idea work on the siphon idea? Is that how the water gets delivered from the main float container to the others equally? I've bought my 1/4" tubing and am trying to figure out how to rig it up to the float container. Did I understand you correctly that you used a grommet and just stuck the tubing in after that?

July 1, 2013	#48
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	Elight, thanks for answering! To "prime" is exactly the issue I was asking. I'm using 1/4" tubing and I"m not sure how to prime the lines to work as a "siphon" if that was the idea... Anyways, I've been studying your picture and it seems like you have your connection point super low, like lower than the overfill hole. Why is that? I have an idea to simply push the "leg/stem" of my barbed-T connection into a hole higher than the overfill hole and have that fill my reservoir. I wonder if it would work...

July 1, 2013	#49
elight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 349	The connection must be made under the water level for my system to work. If any part of the tubing is above the water level (as it certainly would be if any part of the tubing is above the overflow hole), then there will not be any siphoning action. Instead, you will have an air gap in the part of the tubing that is above the water level, and the two containers on either side of that gap will function separately. When the containers are connected by a continuous water connection (siphon or otherwise), then they function essentially as one. Keeping the connection points low helps guard against this. Your idea would work if: 1) the reservoir (or float container if you're using one) maintained a water level higher than the hole, and 2) you were only manually using this method to fill up the container every so often. Certainly a system like this would not be automatic. I have literally not touched my system (or its water) in over 3 weeks. Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense and I'll do my best to explain or draw more diagrams or take more pictures.

March 11, 2014	#52
FISHINNUT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: chicago Posts: 15	I'm going to try this system and use a rain barrel for my reservoir. It will be connected to a rain gutter. Hopefully mother nature will provide sufficient water. Will be using two 31 gal earthtainers and two 5 gal buckets. Not sure about a separate container to house the float valve or adding a valve to a earthtainer.

April 2, 2014	#53
elight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 349	Having now used this system for the third year in a row, I strongly recommend housing the float valve in its own, clear container. That way, if anything ever goes wrong and the water level drops, you'll be able to see it immediately, and access the float valve for adjustment. I've had a few occasions where the valve just needed to be wiggled a bit to clear an obstruction. If it's the bottom of an EarthTainer, I don't know how you would ever access it. Adding the "control reservoir" with the float valve amounts to a $1 plastic container from Target, and an extra $0.50 grommet. Good luck!

April 5, 2014	#54
FISHINNUT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: chicago Posts: 15	Separate water valve container it is..

April 10, 2014	#55
FISHINNUT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: chicago Posts: 15	I plan on using a separate reservoir with a float valve however I am going to daisy chain the earthtainers. Water reservoir to float valve reservoir to earthtainer 1 which is linked to earthtainer 2 linked to 5 gallon bucket 1 to 5 gallon bucket 2. Hoping this will work. Only problem may be water line plugging up?? Thoughts.

April 13, 2014	#59
FISHINNUT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: chicago Posts: 15	Tested the system with the float valve in a separate container and one earthtainer. Adjusted float for a 3 1/2 inch level in the valve container. Did not use a barrel for the test run but hooked up to water faucet. Even with the greater water pressure the earthtainer took a very long time to fill and never reached the 3 1/2 inch mark. I had leveled both containers for the test. My concern is that when I use a barrel for supply and add additional containers to the system, the water supply will not keep up with the water demand, especially in the heat of the summer. Any thoughts??