Florida weave skeptic

[z_willus_d]

Dice, I hadn't even considered the idea of using a pre-made mesh. That's an interesting option that having a whole bed containing cage opens up, and it could save me a lot of time running wire back and forth. Too bad, I've already spent a couple hours drilling holes in the PVC pipes in my 110-degree garage today (home on "vacation").

At about 8pm, I realized there was no way I was going to build this cage without some physical assistance. I also realized that a 10' PCB pole running vertically skyward from ground level was more than just overkill, likely to result in an unstable cube, not to mention brushing against my hanging telephone/cable wires. Now I have to decide exactly how much PCB to cut down the cage. Shall I accept 8' as enough. I know some of my cherries will easily top that.

In any event, I'll certainly look into using something like that mesh you pointed out -- assuming I can work it out in my mind how to attach the net and make is sound.
-naysen

[dice]

To attach the trellis netting to vertical pvc pipes with holes drilled
for wire or nylon string, one can put zip ties through the hole. I
have it zip-tied to recycled steel chain link fence posts, with a zip
tie around the post (you could do that, too). The key is to have a top
rail, a horizontal pipe running from post to post the long way. (Mine
are recycled chain link fence top rails.) Attaching the trellis to the
top rail basically keeps it in place vertically.

I ran it down one row, wrapped around on the end to provide a 4'
wide trellis on the end of two rows. With 4x8 beds and posts at the
corners, one could go completely around the thing and only need zip
ties at the top on the sides and on whatever corner one started on.
My top rails are only 6' high, so I have the bottom of the trellis material
a foot off the ground.

Peaceful Valley has some that is 6-1/2' tall, but they only list 15' lengths,
so one would need more one than piece per bed:
http://www.groworganic.com/hortonova...5-package.html

Here is a photo of someone using this stuff on a conduit framework:
http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/im...-trellis-4.jpg
He has the conduit attached to the wood base on his raised bed with
metal, U-shaped conduit clamps, with a 2' piece of rebar pounded into
the ground beside the bed and the vertical conduit posts slipped down
over them:
http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/im...-trellis-3.jpg

[z_willus_d]

I went ahead and bought this mesh from Amazon. It's 5' x 30', which should be more than sufficient for this particular bed:
http://www.amazon.com/Dalen-Gardenee...ecc_rvi_cart_1

I think I'll keep my vertical runs in the 8'-9' foot range from ground level. Without any support other than PVC frame, I'll probably need to stake down the four corners and tie to the vertical PVC runs. I'm certain now that this is going to be one of the less efficient of many possible setups. I have another larger bed in even more dire need of trellising, and I'm definitely going to go another way with that one. I might give this (http://www.vegetablegardenplanner.co...eas?base_id=39) method a try, or maybe something similar to what you showed with the conduit, which is exactly what my rear neighbors have.

If you want an idea of the cage I've planned to construct, take a look at the attached pic. The center straight runs would be much longer of course. You can see that I had to adapt the Corner with side pieces to make this work. This is definitely not the most efficient design, and it has the drawback that you can't run re-bar or post inside the PVC vertical runs for added support.
-naysen

[jamie_savoie]

I did something similar in my GH this year, but instead of using PVC pipes I made a wood frame and run a string every 8". It's a bit time consuming building the frame but I build 2 per week and it takes me about 1h or so. So far I'm very please with the results!

Here's a couple of pictures:




I'm also trying FW for my tomatoes outside this year and it's a pretty good supporting method too but most likely next year I will switch to horizontal trellis or build CRW cages. My "problem" with FW is I have about 12 different tomatoes plants and they don't grow at the same rate, right now some only touch the 2nd set of strings and some could use a 4th set of strings (I'm on my 3rd now)

[dice]

The main advantage with the polyester mesh trellis is that it is
fast to build (and inexpensive). One does need to fan out stems
into it as they grow, but even in cages people often need to tuck
stems back in that are growing out sideways 2' above the soil.

I have used the horizontal strings in wooden A-frames with a plant
inside. I put a piece of 1"x4" wood across the front and back about
2' up from the ground, and put another piece on the sides about a
foot higher than that. That keeps the legs basically in place where
you put them.Then I drill holes in the legs about every foot and just
string a horizontal 1/8" nylon rectangle through them. It makes a
ladder-like support that is inexpensive to build. (I had recycled used
brass door hinges to join the tops together. Kind of overkill, but it
works.)

The advantage of a trellis over something like that is the ability to
accomodate several plants at once.

[z_willus_d]

Well, today with the help of my father I finished construction of the PVC cage for bed #2. I ended up drilling holes through the bottom of tri-angle joints, and running 4' rebar up for stability in the vertical dimension. Even with that structure in place, the 8.5' vertical runs came off as a slight flimsy. I'm using the thickest 1" pipe available at the local HD. I'm certain I would go about this different next time, as I don't believe the base square offers any benefit.

But, this, I hope, should get the job done on this bed. My neighbors are using conduit for their trellising, and I couldn't help but detect a slight tone of disgust in a comment made on the non- biodegradability of plastics. Oh well. Buying the pre-made nylon mesh really saved time -- thanks for that hint Dice. Now to train these sprawling vines outward. BTW, that big fluff of spritzy green in the foreground of pic1 is my French Tarragon plant, seeded last year and come back from the dead to dominate my bed. And that's after I cut it down 80% a few weeks back to dry several quarts worth. Crazy this stuff costs so much in the stores.
-naysen

[dice]

That looks ok. The frame around your raised bed itself looks fairly
sturdy, so anchoring the vertical posts to it might help. (My recycled
chain-link fence posts came already cast in a glob of dried concrete
on one end, so they tend to stay put well enough to hold up tomato
plants.)

[Mark0820]

The Florida weave continues to work well for me. Since this is my first time doing it, I did a few things differently. Instead of running twine the entire length of the row, I tied off every two plants. I thought this would help keep the twine tight so it holds up at the end of the year. I also have been adding a row of twine at six inch intervals.

The real test will come when the plants reach the top of the posts and start back down towards the ground. However, at this point, I am a convert. It definitely takes less space than cages (and there aren't any cages to store each winter).

[tam91]

Florida weave is working just great for me too - I don't think I'll ever go back to cages. SO much easier.

Every few days I tuck some stems back inside a string, but that only takes a minute and I'm inspecting the plants anyway.

[kenny_j]

I made cages this year out of crw and they were the best for me. Here in michigan, none of my larger fruited varieties ripened fruit above 5 feet or so. By late August i'm trimming flower buds that dont have time to develop ripe fruit, plant puts it's energy into the fruit already there, so no deed for taller support systems. Toying with idea of a trellis system, maybe one with netting, using re-rod. I found left over rod on craigs list and bought a hundered 6-7 foot pieces for 50 cents a piece, used many to stake my cages, one per cage. They would make nice corner posts, and in between posts, especially if I used some type of top railing. I like the Idea of more lateral growth and suppurt that regular weave cannot give. No pruning means more fruit. Takes up space, but I've got over an acre to work with.
My cages were 2 feet across (made 24 from one roll), and once those indet.'s took off, that seemed almost not enough. I planted plants 3 ft apart and rows around 40 inches. Next year rows will be 5-6 ft apart. I had to constantly trim branches growning from one row into the cages in the next row. With enough space between rows, one can easily tie supports off the wire cage at any level and let the branches stay outside of the cage, more room, better air and more maters.
Cages only cost me $4.50 when made 2 ft across. I looped the ends after cutting the wire from rolls and hooked them to the other side, the spring tension keeps them tight, and a band tie really secures. At end of season, I unhook the looped ends (j-shaped), lay on their side in the back of my garden trailer. They spring open somewhat. I stretch them open wider with a rubber bungee on each side of the trailer, and put the next cage inside, unhook the jays, move the bungees and put the next one in. I got 12 cages into one bundle this way, takes a lot less storage space. Could probably get 20 to a bundle with a little effort.
Tried some smaller older cages that were just to small. the re-rod stakes kept them up, they were just way to small. Inquired at lowes about galvanized crw, but no luck yet. The Idea of a row long rectangular trellis, 2-3 feet wide, with netting may be uesd for additional plants next year. Thanx to all for the great ideas here.

[austinnhanasmom]

I use FW every year for about 5 years now.

The draw backs for me are:

*time consuming to get the young shoots tucked and trained
*sometimes hard to find the ripe fruit inside the hedge of leaves and branches
*once a plant dies or is dying, it's supporting it's neighbors, so no yanking it out

Other then that, I love FW method

[FILMNET]

I keep forgetting with my FW if I don't see fruit that I remember were there, Just go over the other side, There they are.

[fortyonenorth]

Used FW this year for about 1/2 my plants - the other half were grown in Texas Tomato Cages. IMO, FW would be better suited for smaller determinate plants. In my situation, I only have good access from the front of the plants, the back faces a slope that is prone to erosion, so I try not to trample there unless I have to. With that in mind, the stringing and weaving became tiresome and, as Deb pointed out, it's hard to remove dead plants without disrupting the whole deal. The larger indeterminate plants were unwieldy early in the year, though once they beefed-up in July I felt the support was adequate. My resolution for 2012 is to limit the number of plants I grow to the number of Tx Cages I have on hand - they are that good. They are (were) a significant investment on the front side, but they provide rock-solid support and seem like they will last indefinitely.

[austinnhanasmom]

I grow as many plants as can fit/cram 3' apart in my small garden. This has been between 45 and 65 plants.

I used the CRW cages too and liked them as well, except I had two issues:

I used too small of mesh size and had to cut holes to access the fruit. Resulting sharp edges from cut wire were a nightmare on the skin!

My yard is small (no shed) and no way was DH allowing me to store those in "his" garage. So they blew everywhere (45 cages) in our crazy wind and rusted badly. I'm not sure the rust made them less strong, they just looked bad.

So, the FW is working better for me, but I do miss the CRW cages at times.

I also have the unruliness with the indeterminates. I have to remove branches about mid-season and it's disheartening. I apologize in advance to the plants, but I know they detest it because the regrowth is nuts. This surge in growth must be detrimental to the fruit production. Right now, the jungle has regenerated! I don't have the heart to prune the few plants that are still thriving, so I get quite the workout maneuvering under and around the plants!

I also have one side of one row that rarely gets picked, since it's difficult to access, plus my garter snakes live on that side and I prefer to never see them!!