Larger Tomatoes With Real Taste - Page 4

**carolyn137** · February 12, 2006

I agree with Craig completely in that we all have our favorites and what grows and tastes great for one person in one location using their own growing methods and their own fertilizers and with their own weather and soil may not be reflected by the same variety grown elsewhere by someone else.

When I see someone who says a particular variety doesn't do well for them and it's a standout for me, I just chalk it up to location or any other number of variables.

No one person should listen that closely to some of us who have grown so many varieties name all the varieties we do b'c the task becomes impossible in terms of choosing varieties to grow.

Just make a list and go thru it year by year and trial and see what does best. If a variety comes to me highly praised by LOTS of folks and it doesn't perform, I always give it a second chance.

Carolyn

TomatoDon · February 12, 2006

Well, I guess it has slimmed down to these:

1. Better Boy
2. Big Boy
3. Brandywine
4. Brandy Boy
5. Sudduth Brandywine
6. Rutgers
7. Marianna'a Peace
8. Stump of the World
9. Cherokee Purple
10. Carbon
11. Neves Azorean Red
12. Cuostralee
And one Sungold in a whiskey barrel.

I deleted German Giant since no one here mentioned it. Also Burpee Delicious and Mexico, since I got so much negative feedback about them. This list is sort of a composite of the things suggested, and I really only care about the reds and pinks fo now. Maybe I'll get into the other colors next year.

Carolyn? Craig? Suze? Anything on the revised list I should second-think because of MS climate?

Don

**nctomatoman** · February 12, 2006

Sure, there is always something more to say that you have to decide whether to consider!

You have five on the list that are very, very similar - large fruited pink potato leaf varieties. In fact, Brandywine and Sudduth Brandywine are one and the same - and add Brandy Boy (has anyone ever really confirmed it is in fact a hybrid??), Marianna's Peace and Stump of the World and that makes 5. Rutgers is a 6-8 ounce variety (were you going all large?). I would remove a few of the large pink potato leaf varieties and add a reg leaf pink, like Wins All - and perhaps Lucky Cross, Lillian's Yellow and Yellow Brandywine or Aunt Gertie's Gold to give some other monster potential with flavor options.

But you may not like yellow or golden tomatoes.

See, aren't you glad you asked!

Suze · February 12, 2006

Some general comments--

Like Craig said, a lot of pink PLs there. As for your other 'Brandywine', both Red Brandywine and OTV Brandywine work well for me. RB being a red RL and OTV being a red PL.

Would second the recommendation on Lucky Cross (I love Lucky Cross).

Thumbs up on the Cuostralee. I haven't grown NAR before, this year will be my first time.

Cherokee Purple, Carbon, and Sungold are favorites that I wouldn't be without. I also like Stump of the World very much.

Marianna's Peace did not impress in the past, but I am trying it again with a new seed source this year.

I prefer Big Beef to Better Boy and Big Boy as hybrid beefsteak types go.

And how about a heart? Anna Russian is a favorite of mine.

Jaune Flammee is another one of my favorites -- sets well in the heat and tastes wonderful -- strong flavored with good balance.

Edited to add -- In keeping with the subject of this thread, Anna and JF aren't large fruited varieties, but they sure taste good to my tastebuds.

TomatoDon · February 12, 2006

Well, the two I can't do without, because I've never done without, are Big Boy and Better Boy. To leave those out would be like leaving two ss's out of the name Mississippi. I picked Rutgers, even small, because of the flavor. It's a favorite here. We have some others, Marion and Marglobe, Bonnie's Best, Better Bush, etc. but haven't had much luck with some of those.

And Craig, I know you've explained this before, and I've looked it up on the Victory Seed website, about Brandywine. I just can't get it straight. I thought the real Brandywine was simply called just Brandywine, and was a pink. Then, there was the Sudduth strain, then the hybrid Brandy Boy. Brandywine is at the top of my list for new things this year, so tell me again what to look for in selecting a "Brandywine."

Don

**carolyn137** · February 13, 2006

Don,

I'm not Craig, of whom you asked the question, but......

Unless you get seeds for Brandywine (Sudduth), labelled as such, you don't know which strain of Brandywine you have for there are several, as several of us have written here before. And it's entirely possible that your Brandywine is the Sudduth strain, just not labelled as such.

The Sudduth strain is smoother, does produce more, and for many, does taste better, but essentially, growing both Brandywine, strain unknown, and the Sudduth strain, is really quite repetitive at this stage of the game for someone new getting into growing heirlooms.

And I do agree with Craig in that you have many that are large pinks, and it might be more interesting to diversify.

Restraining myself, I'm not going to suggest others to you right now b'c both Craig and Suze have already done so.

As I said earlier, just make a list and steel yourself to growing the number you can handle in one season, and just try new ones each year, year after year, until you build up experience with many varieties.

The more varieties you grow you'll find it's easier to make decisions about what you do and don't like.

Carolyn

travis · February 13, 2006

The great thing about "bad" tomatoes is that you can enjoy growing them and then give'm away if they don't suit your tastes.

That way, at least you have the experience of finding out what you do and don't like about'm, and there's always someone else who thinks that "bad" tomato is about the best one he ever ate.

PV

travis · February 13, 2006

"Well, the two I can't do without, because I've never done without, are Big Boy and Better Boy. To leave those out would be like leaving two ss's out of the name Mississippi." [Don]

Fact is, Don, the name of that state, at least when I lived there, was pronounced "Missippi" anyway. Never knew anybody from Missippi to say "Mississippi."

And I will second or third the nomination for Big Beef over Better Boy for sure. No contest there. Big Boys I caint really say since I haven't grown them since the 1970s when I decided Better Boys were better.

"... and add Brandy Boy (has anyone ever really confirmed it is in fact a hybrid??) ..." [Craig]

Well, I wonder that too, Craig. So my plans include growing Brandy Boy F1, F2, and F3s side by side this summer just to see what's what ... that is if all the seeds germinate successfully.

PV

TomatoDon · February 13, 2006

OK Papa, I'll add Big Beef, but can't do without my Big and Better Boys. It's tradition. Park's Whopper was always a dud for me here. So were all of the other bigs.

And you're right. We do still pronounce it Miss-ippi. I can't believe you left this God-blessed place. Still churning on. The most beloved/hated place in the nation. What would they do without us and Elvis, BB King, Jimmy Rogers, Robert Johnson, William Faulkner, Tennessee Williams, John Grisham, Faith Hill, Leanne Rhimes, Archie and Peyton and Eli Manning, Bret Farve, Jerry Rice, Walter Peyton, Willie Morris, Peavy Electronics, the Miss Americas, the Rhodes Scholars at Ole Miss, and on and on. And catfish. Good ole deep fried catfish. You know what I mean. You lived it like I still do.

A friend of mine's father, who had a car dealership in Water Valley, gave me a neat car tag they used to get in back in the 60's with the new cars. I guess they made them over in Parchman. You know what that is. "Mississippi. The most lied about state in the nation." You know how it was.

I think I've been convinced to add Aker's West Virginia, too. I'm getting quite an all-star tomato team lined up here. I may just use all 9 beds in town for tomatoes. This Heirloom thing is catching on with me.

Stay in touch. Kindred. Next time your down south, call me. Let's get a steak at Doe's Eat Place. They have a new one in Oxford.

Don

Down in Miss-is-sippi...where I used to chop and hoe all day...down in Miss-is-sippi. <Ry Cooder>

cottonpicker · February 13, 2006

don06.... I chopped & hoed cotton all day in 100++degree weather for 13 hrs. a day @ $1.00 an hour ( in OK) so I KNOW what your talkin' about!!!! I never lived in Miss'sippi, but my great grandparents came from Scott County, MS ( Forest) to Texas in 1850. We're cut from the same cloth, brother!!!

TomatoDon · February 13, 2006

Cottonpicker....one of my best friends parents live in Forest. Named after the general I think. I went to church there once with them. Fine little town.

As I remember...didn't they pay a penny a pound for picked cotton? Seems that was the going rate in those long ago days. My older brother had a contest with a friend to see who could pick the most cotton in a day. Brother won, and got a dollar! The going rate for field work in those days was fifty cents a day. Can you believe it? Work six days a week, and I mean hard work, and get $3.50.

All this chat thread has made me try to remember where we got tomatoes in those days. We didn't grow them. Maybe it was all from Pappy. But, the two things we had on the table all summer long was cornbread and tomatoes. Everyday. I don't know why I lost my taste for tomatoes for a few years there, but it came back, and I've been on fire ever since. Looking forward to all these new Heirlooms this year. This will be a learning year, for sure.

Stay in touch. Next time you are down this way, give me a call. Let's go fishing.

Don

Goober says Hey.

cottonpicker · February 13, 2006

The pleasure would be all mine!!! Love the South!!

TomatoDon · February 15, 2006

Cottonpicker,

I can't believe the response this thread has drawn. I've gotten over 900 hits and 56 replies. It'll take a while to read over them all.

Don

Fusion_power · February 15, 2006

Yes Don, it gets a lot of interest. People want to know what varieties are the biggest and best tasting. I could tell you about Deacon's Gift which is a very difficult to find variety with very large fruit and exceptional flavor. But that would just be adding insult to injury since I am the only person on the web who seems to have seed at present.

Maybe I can help you along on the Big Beef by telling you that I provided seed of a few hard to get varieties to the experiment station at Starkville 2 years ago. They grew off about 200 different varieties and compared production. Big Beef was the hands down winner. Toss in that its flavor is significantly better than the average hybrid and would even rate at the low end of the top 10 best heirlooms and you will begin to see why I recommend it.

What I can't figure out is why Bonnie Plant Farms still grow Big Boy and Better Boy seedlings. I guess its just that people still want to grow them.

Fusion

TomatoDon · February 15, 2006

Thanks Fusion. Where are you located?

You mentioned the best hybrids being only at the bottom of the top ten of Heirlooms. Are Heirlooms really that much better?

Don

February 12, 2006	#47
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	Well, I guess it has slimmed down to these: 1. Better Boy 2. Big Boy 3. Brandywine 4. Brandy Boy 5. Sudduth Brandywine 6. Rutgers 7. Marianna'a Peace 8. Stump of the World 9. Cherokee Purple 10. Carbon 11. Neves Azorean Red 12. Cuostralee And one Sungold in a whiskey barrel. I deleted German Giant since no one here mentioned it. Also Burpee Delicious and Mexico, since I got so much negative feedback about them. This list is sort of a composite of the things suggested, and I really only care about the reds and pinks fo now. Maybe I'll get into the other colors next year. Carolyn? Craig? Suze? Anything on the revised list I should second-think because of MS climate? Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

February 12, 2006	#48
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Sure, there is always something more to say that you have to decide whether to consider! You have five on the list that are very, very similar - large fruited pink potato leaf varieties. In fact, Brandywine and Sudduth Brandywine are one and the same - and add Brandy Boy (has anyone ever really confirmed it is in fact a hybrid??), Marianna's Peace and Stump of the World and that makes 5. Rutgers is a 6-8 ounce variety (were you going all large?). I would remove a few of the large pink potato leaf varieties and add a reg leaf pink, like Wins All - and perhaps Lucky Cross, Lillian's Yellow and Yellow Brandywine or Aunt Gertie's Gold to give some other monster potential with flavor options. But you may not like yellow or golden tomatoes. See, aren't you glad you asked! __________________ Craig

February 12, 2006	#50
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	Well, the two I can't do without, because I've never done without, are Big Boy and Better Boy. To leave those out would be like leaving two ss's out of the name Mississippi. I picked Rutgers, even small, because of the flavor. It's a favorite here. We have some others, Marion and Marglobe, Bonnie's Best, Better Bush, etc. but haven't had much luck with some of those. And Craig, I know you've explained this before, and I've looked it up on the Victory Seed website, about Brandywine. I just can't get it straight. I thought the real Brandywine was simply called just Brandywine, and was a pink. Then, there was the Sudduth strain, then the hybrid Brandy Boy. Brandywine is at the top of my list for new things this year, so tell me again what to look for in selecting a "Brandywine." Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

February 13, 2006	#54
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	OK Papa, I'll add Big Beef, but can't do without my Big and Better Boys. It's tradition. Park's Whopper was always a dud for me here. So were all of the other bigs. And you're right. We do still pronounce it Miss-ippi. I can't believe you left this God-blessed place. Still churning on. The most beloved/hated place in the nation. What would they do without us and Elvis, BB King, Jimmy Rogers, Robert Johnson, William Faulkner, Tennessee Williams, John Grisham, Faith Hill, Leanne Rhimes, Archie and Peyton and Eli Manning, Bret Farve, Jerry Rice, Walter Peyton, Willie Morris, Peavy Electronics, the Miss Americas, the Rhodes Scholars at Ole Miss, and on and on. And catfish. Good ole deep fried catfish. You know what I mean. You lived it like I still do. A friend of mine's father, who had a car dealership in Water Valley, gave me a neat car tag they used to get in back in the 60's with the new cars. I guess they made them over in Parchman. You know what that is. "Mississippi. The most lied about state in the nation." You know how it was. I think I've been convinced to add Aker's West Virginia, too. I'm getting quite an all-star tomato team lined up here. I may just use all 9 beds in town for tomatoes. This Heirloom thing is catching on with me. Stay in touch. Kindred. Next time your down south, call me. Let's get a steak at Doe's Eat Place. They have a new one in Oxford. Don Down in Miss-is-sippi...where I used to chop and hoe all day...down in Miss-is-sippi. <Ry Cooder> __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

February 13, 2006	#55
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	don06.... I chopped & hoed cotton all day in 100++degree weather for 13 hrs. a day @ $1.00 an hour ( in OK) so I KNOW what your talkin' about!!!! I never lived in Miss'sippi, but my great grandparents came from Scott County, MS ( Forest) to Texas in 1850. We're cut from the same cloth, brother!!! __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

February 12, 2006	#46
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I agree with Craig completely in that we all have our favorites and what grows and tastes great for one person in one location using their own growing methods and their own fertilizers and with their own weather and soil may not be reflected by the same variety grown elsewhere by someone else. When I see someone who says a particular variety doesn't do well for them and it's a standout for me, I just chalk it up to location or any other number of variables. No one person should listen that closely to some of us who have grown so many varieties name all the varieties we do b'c the task becomes impossible in terms of choosing varieties to grow. Just make a list and go thru it year by year and trial and see what does best. If a variety comes to me highly praised by LOTS of folks and it doesn't perform, I always give it a second chance. Carolyn

February 12, 2006	#49
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	Some general comments-- Like Craig said, a lot of pink PLs there. As for your other 'Brandywine', both Red Brandywine and OTV Brandywine work well for me. RB being a red RL and OTV being a red PL. Would second the recommendation on Lucky Cross (I love Lucky Cross). Thumbs up on the Cuostralee. I haven't grown NAR before, this year will be my first time. Cherokee Purple, Carbon, and Sungold are favorites that I wouldn't be without. I also like Stump of the World very much. Marianna's Peace did not impress in the past, but I am trying it again with a new seed source this year. I prefer Big Beef to Better Boy and Big Boy as hybrid beefsteak types go. And how about a heart? Anna Russian is a favorite of mine. Jaune Flammee is another one of my favorites -- sets well in the heat and tastes wonderful -- strong flavored with good balance. Edited to add -- In keeping with the subject of this thread, Anna and JF aren't large fruited varieties, but they sure taste good to my tastebuds.

February 13, 2006	#52
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	The great thing about "bad" tomatoes is that you can enjoy growing them and then give'm away if they don't suit your tastes. That way, at least you have the experience of finding out what you do and don't like about'm, and there's always someone else who thinks that "bad" tomato is about the best one he ever ate. PV

February 15, 2006	#58
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	Cottonpicker, I can't believe the response this thread has drawn. I've gotten over 900 hits and 56 replies. It'll take a while to read over them all. Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

February 15, 2006	#59
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Yes Don, it gets a lot of interest. People want to know what varieties are the biggest and best tasting. I could tell you about Deacon's Gift which is a very difficult to find variety with very large fruit and exceptional flavor. But that would just be adding insult to injury since I am the only person on the web who seems to have seed at present. Maybe I can help you along on the Big Beef by telling you that I provided seed of a few hard to get varieties to the experiment station at Starkville 2 years ago. They grew off about 200 different varieties and compared production. Big Beef was the hands down winner. Toss in that its flavor is significantly better than the average hybrid and would even rate at the low end of the top 10 best heirlooms and you will begin to see why I recommend it. What I can't figure out is why Bonnie Plant Farms still grow Big Boy and Better Boy seedlings. I guess its just that people still want to grow them. Fusion