Most 'economical' method of building up soil?

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

The easiest way to explain it Glenn is by going here: The Red Baron Project year 1 p5

Remember the thread is " Most 'economical' method of building up soil?" Believe me This is economical. First off the mulched part uses 1/3 less because I am not mulching the whole garden, just the rows of tomatoes and peppers. No fertiliser cost, no pesticide cost, no herbicide cost. 1/3rd the mulch cost. (maybe free if you find a source of free mulch). Paper is generally free, but if not you can buy long rolls very cheap. All you have to do is have some rich compost soil to fill in after each transplant and inoculate it with mycorrhizal fungi spores. Nature does the rest. Even in hot Oklahoma, I maybe water 2-3 times in a whole season. (+ when I transplant) The most I ever had to water even with a severe drought was 5 times all season. My water is free. I simply didn't want to over water.

Next year, move the row over 2 feet. Grass will come right back on last years row. (I learned that this year) I still use covers. I grow a cover crop mixture through the winter after the tomatoes die. Besides that all you need to do is mow. Couldn't be easier. Even cheap and easy enough for a lazy cheapskate like me.

This way I get the most from both the long and short carbon cycles, and the soil improves astonishingly fast.

Now I have to say this though. Even though my soil was poor and hard as a rock through mismanagement years ago before I even lived in Oklahoma, the substrate is LitB. That's prime perfect farmland when it has enough carbon in it. So I don't know if it will work everywhere in every case. That's why I am always asking people, like I did Tania, to please try a row or two and post their results, good or bad.

I will try one or two rows of this. Is it okay, in a brand new garden, to till in a bunch of rotted leaves/etc? I am going to need a little lime, too. Can I till that in? Also,
I will starting a fruit garden, too. Unfortunately, I'm putting the strawberries and blueberries on top of my new, huge septic field. The soil was turned over for excavating and looks like pure sand. I'm sure this will take awhile to turn around but its one of my only places with sun. Planting blueberries and strawberries there. I threw some buckwheat seed down there to try to get some organic matter until its cool enough to plant. Little germination so far since we've only had a trace of rain. I may do some grass mix until I obtain my berry plants.
The vegetable garden area is not as sunny as I would like. It has nicer soil as it's been grassy for awhile. We have centipede grass, which more behaved than the Bermuda I'm used to.
I'll put fruit trees on the edge of this area.
I may hugelkultur some or all of the berries with all the felled trees in that spot.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

I will try one or two rows of this. Is it okay, in a brand new garden, to till in a bunch of rotted leaves/etc? I am going to need a little lime, too. Can I till that in? Also,

Actually Tracy, it is up to you. I know you are an experienced gardener and my project is experimental. So I would respect your judgement. You know your soil better than me. Maybe we will both learn something?

[Tania]

Tracy,

If I had rotten leaves, I would put it on top of the beds, sprinkling lime first, then covered by leaves. Worms will take care of them quickly.

Another option is to sprinkle lime, then put the leaves, and then cover by a thin layer of compost, if you have a compost pile.

This is slightly offtopic, but I read in quite a few places that changing pH is not so easy, as soil rich in organic matter will 'resist' it. I do not bother with soil pH, as long as I see the veggies thriving in the garden. I also believe that by adding lots of organics into the soil will make it a good pH for growing vegetable crops. Our native soils are quite acidic here - lots of blueberry farms around! I think I limed only a couple of times over the last 10 years, only because everybody talks about it. Not sure if it had any effect on our soil pH. I believe if the soil is rich in humus, plants will thrive in our garden, regardless of pH. They thrive even more when the soil is covered by ramial wood chips.

How acidic is your soil Tracy?

Tatiana

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Actually Tracy, it is up to you. I know you are an experienced gardener and my project is experimental. So I would respect your judgement. You know your soil better than me. Maybe we will both learn something?

Since I just moved here, I'd have't say I know nothing about my soil except that it is pure sand and acidic. I'm guessing on pH by looking at what's thriving but I'd say it's around 5.0.
Should get my soil test results this week.
Lots of blueberries, azaleas and rhododendrons grown here. I have azaleas and rhododendrons all over the property.

[efisakov]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Since I just moved here, I'd have't say I know nothing about my soil except that it is pure sand and acidic. I'm guessing on pH by looking at what's thriving but I'd say it's around 5.0.
Should get my soil test results this week.
Lots of blueberries, azaleas and rhododendrons grown here. I have azaleas and rhododendrons all over the property.

That sounds as a pretty property, Tracy.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by efisakov

That sounds as a pretty property, Tracy.

I'll post some pics when the leaves start to turn. I think it will be amazing, although right now the land us an overgrown jungle. The 3 acre pond is amazing!

[COMPOSTER]

Scott,

I like the concept very much. Ruth Stout loved to mulch with hay. How much does the hay break down in one year?

Glenn

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

Scott,

I like the concept very much. Ruth Stout loved to mulch with hay. How much does the hay break down in one year?

Glenn

In my small plot it doesn't even last the year except for small traces. By the end of the season it actually has grass growing back right in with the tomatoes and peppers. But all good. I want it back to sod by spring so I can shift over 2 feet. Right now you couldn't even tell where last years rows were. That's the point I was trying to make. Maximise the solar collection by living green plants so more deep cycle carbon gets sequestered.

[Tania]

a very interesting quote from the article Regenerating Soils with Ramial Chipped Wood (LAVAL UNIVERSITY)

THE PRODUCTION OF A STABLE HUMUS
There are humic substances that have a short life (compost and manure) and others that have a long life (more than 1000 years). These substances play an important role in the balance of the soil. The Asian steppes, the South-American pampas and the North-American prairies, being covered with herbaceous plants, have short-life humus. The soil claimed from hardwood forest has long-life humus.
In soils farmed intensively with synthetic fertilizers exclusively, a modified bacterial and mostly fungal biology ends up consuming the long-life humus of forest origin. By using farm manure or compost in which the only source of lignin is straw, we cannot hope that humus having a long life will form massively and stabilize the soil on a long term. This type of organic amendment brings the soil to a condition similar to the North-American prairie soils which derived its lignin from Graminaceae over thousands of years and which have not long resisted to intensive farming. These soils are now subject to massive erosion. Only the addition of ramial chipped wood can be viewed as a means to return the soil to its former forest origin condition and reinstitute, in three years, a long-life humus content.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tania

a very interesting quote from the article Regenerating Soils with Ramial Chipped Wood (LAVAL UNIVERSITY)

Interesting post Tania. But that quote you gave is actually wrong. Don't worry though. It's not your fault, nor even the University. For years that is what the accepted science believed. Science is not static though. Previous assumptions get overturned by new science all the time. Turns out that in general the humus in the root zone of a grassland actually is the deep cycle, and the humus on the surface of forest soil is the short cycle.

This paper here overturns many previously thought ideas. That particular one being just a small part. Cenozoic Expansion of Grasslands and Climatic Cooling

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Tania

Tracy,

If I had rotten leaves, I would put it on top of the beds, sprinkling lime first, then covered by leaves. Worms will take care of them quickly.

Another option is to sprinkle lime, then put the leaves, and then cover by a thin layer of compost, if you have a compost pile.

This is slightly offtopic, but I read in quite a few places that changing pH is not so easy, as soil rich in organic matter will 'resist' it. I do not bother with soil pH, as long as I see the veggies thriving in the garden. I also believe that by adding lots of organics into the soil will make it a good pH for growing vegetable crops. Our native soils are quite acidic here - lots of blueberry farms around! I think I limed only a couple of times over the last 10 years, only because everybody talks about it. Not sure if it had any effect on our soil pH. I believe if the soil is rich in humus, plants will thrive in our garden, regardless of pH. They thrive even more when the soil is covered by ramial wood chips.

How acidic is your soil Tracy?

Tatiana

My compost bin won't be done for a long time and my tumbler needs at least two more months. I just started both, when we arrived here about 4 weeks ago.

[Tania]

Wow, Tracy, this is so beautiful! How big is your land?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

My compost bin won't be done for a long time and my tumbler needs at least two more months. I just started both, when we arrived here about 4 weeks ago.

I need to get out my water color sets and some paper! That is a stunning view!

[Tania]

Scott, very interesting! Thank you for the link!

[efisakov]

Tracy, are you into fishing? Fish is a great compost too.