is this bacterial or fungal? HELP! - Page 4

Johnniemar · June 29, 2016

No. I bough those seeds. Can't remember which seed company though.

BigVanVader · June 29, 2016

Thank God, I would feel terrible if I spread tainted seed around the globe.

**carolyn137** · June 29, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnniemar

I have 5 indian stripe potato leaf plants, 4 of them have died from what looks like bacterial wilt. I also have 8 Indian stripe regular leaf plants that are healthy. Seems to me that the ispl plant is prone to this wilting disease. I plan to not grow this potato leaf version of Indian stripe next season. Will double up on Isrl.

I am the source for IS RL

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Indian_Stripe

Tania doesn't list ISPL and without doing a search I can't remember who sent it to me.

Many many folks have grown both the RL and PL versions in the same season, I've offered both in many seed offers here and seen no difference between the two other than leaf form.That in a Fall feedback thread I put up each year.

From the accmulated data since about 2003 when I first SSE listed them I've seen no evidence at all that one or the other is susceptible to any kind of wilt diseases .

Actually IS is a so called version,as I describe it, of Cherokee Purple and as with CP there are both RL and PL versions,heart forms as well, and no one has seen any differences between the RL and PL versions of CP either.

There are many many threads here at TV about all of this for those who might want to do a search.

Sadly,right now I don't have time to do it.

I hope the above has helped,

Carolyn

Johnniemar · June 29, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

Thank God, I would feel terrible if I spread tainted seed around the globe.

You sent me seeds for bear creek. Many thanks. I have 4 bear creek plants and they are doing great. About 6 feet tall with quite a few tomatoes on them, and no disease.

BigVanVader · June 29, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnniemar

You sent me seeds for bear creek. Many thanks. I have 4 bear creek plants and they are doing great. About 6 feet tall with quite a few tomatoes on them, and no disease.

Nice! Mine got forgotten in the "I planted you but don't have time to properly care for you bed" that I use for seed saving sometimes. A few plants survived just sprawling in weeds and never getting pruned or watered. The few I got before the ants and caterpillars were really good.

Lindalana · June 29, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by bower

For the cuttings, they say to use a clean soilless mix because pythium is associated with soil and sand - although as we know it can be sometimes in the commercial mixes, along with fungus gnats which spread it.

The soil amendment approach could work for Pythium, here is a list of things that may help in the tables here:
http://extension.psu.edu/pests/plant...plant-diseases
Potassium silicate? I never heard of it but apparently both the potassium and the silicate helps. In the case of the 'pith necrosis' bacteria, amendment with potassium and calcium is recommended. For natural source, kelp has K as well as other benefits to the soil community, chitin or shrimp or crab shells encourages Trichoderma, and Horsetail (Equisetum) is a natural source of soluble silica could be applied as a tea. Just some examples, I'm sure there is something locally about everywhere that could be used to tweak the soil community. Mushrooms are chitin too, for example - if available instead of shell I would shred them up to feed the Trichoderma etc. even if you have a product like Actinovate, you could make the most of it by feeding the good guys. JMO.

Thanks much!
Used enzymes from Kelp4less, guessing something similar to Hygrozyme, then Actinovate. Tomorrow will drench with bunch of mycos and make compost tea. !@#$ those problems LOL I just want tomatoes!

Shapshftr · July 16, 2016

Your third picture looks like leaf mold, not fusarium wilt:

http://tinyurl.com/j9utnhk

Also, as b54red pointed out, there is usually yellowing of the leaves in fusarium, and yours don't look yellowed at all. This is fusarium wilt:

http://allaboutgrowingtomatoes.blogs...of-tomato.html

But that doesn't show the accompanying brown vascular tissue in the stems. Now you say another plant is wilting, but only on one side. That does sound like fusarium wilt, but without the yellowing. Another posibility is fusarium crown and root rot. That will cause the stem to turn brown about 6 inches up from the soil. Maybe you have both:

http://allaboutgrowingtomatoes.blogs...-root-rot.html

bower · July 16, 2016

Hi Shapshftr,

I know the leaf mold Fulvia Fulva, which is a dreaded defoliator in my greenhouse on times when it's humid and hot.

Leaves turn yellow but as you showed, can be distinguished from other things by the brownish/tan spore masses on the underside of the yellowed leaf.
One thing though, to my knowledge it doesn't have any effect on stems - I've never seen a stem affected by it in any way.

The only good thing about the leaf mold for me, is that it is not a bit viable when the weather turns colder, so if the plants survive the ravages of the hot spell, they can grow new leaves and carry on. Not so good obviously if you live somewhere it's perpetually humid and hot!

Shapshftr · July 16, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by bower

Hi Shapshftr,

I know the leaf mold Fulvia Fulva, which is a dreaded defoliator in my greenhouse on times when it's humid and hot.

Leaves turn yellow but as you showed, can be distinguished from other things by the brownish/tan spore masses on the underside of the yellowed leaf.
One thing though, to my knowledge it doesn't have any effect on stems - I've never seen a stem affected by it in any way.

The only good thing about the leaf mold for me, is that it is not a bit viable when the weather turns colder, so if the plants survive the ravages of the hot spell, they can grow new leaves and carry on. Not so good obviously if you live somewhere it's perpetually humid and hot!

Hi Bower, yes I saw the brown spore masses on the backs of the leaves and thought leaf mold right away. But the other symptoms are of fusarium wilt and rot. It's possible he has more than one issue going on. Sometimes a plant weakened by a disease becomes more susceptible to others. But it's also possible that browning on the stem is from some sort of insect damage rather than rot.

Lindalana · July 16, 2016

Bower, happy to report, actinovate did the trick, and Pithium is gone. Or at least subsided. I only lost 2 plants instead of the dozen that got affected.

Kazedwards · July 16, 2016

What are these spots? They are on the stem and leaves.

-Zach

Lindalana · July 16, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazedwards

What are these spots? They are on the stem and leaves.

-Zach

Bacterial speck/ bacterial spot?

b54red · July 17, 2016

Amending the soil may help but the best alternative and the easiest is to graft onto a rootstock that is more resistant to fusarium wilt and bacterial wilt. I used RST-04-106-T mostly this year and have had no bacterial wilt for the first time in many years. ISPL is not more susceptible to wilt than any other plant that I have noticed. It seems that location in the garden is the most likely suspect with either wilt. ISPL is my most productive black tomato for the last two years. I don't believe fusrium or bacterial wilt is easily transferred with properly saved seeds.

I dealt with many instances of both diseases and saved seed from tomatoes from the affected plants sometimes and found no more disease with them than with seeds from plants with no problems. I also had cases of fusarium wilt with fresh seed that I got trading with people up north where fusarium is a rare occurrence. I did find that when the seed were used for the scions in grafts that they never had any problems with the diseases so I think soil is the main culprit. The problem with both diseases is they can be very bad one year and not so bad the next. A cold winter helps a lot with fusarium and a very mild winter like last year makes it worse the next year. These are just observations from someone who fought both diseases for over 35 years in the same location. I tried all kind of amendments but the biggest help was a cold winter. The amendments did make a difference with RKN but did little to alleviate fusarium which was my main problem.

The black tomatoes are much more susceptible to gray mold in my experience and it can cause a plant to wilt if it gets bad enough. Soil born diseases like fusarium and bacterial wilt are a constant threat down here with varying severity from year to year. One year fusarium was so bad that in a garden that would only hold about 80 or 90 plants I ended up replanting almost everyone of my plants at least once due to fusarium. Amazingly the Indian Stripes of both leaf types did better than many others when replanted right in the same spot where one plant had just died from ifusarium.

Even after I started grafting onto rootstock that was resistant to all three races of fusarium I still would lose from half dozen to a dozen plants to wilt; but when I used one that had some resistance to bacterial wilt as well that seems to have stopped. Of course I have only been using that one for two seasons so possibly it is a fluke but I have to think it isn't. The only problem is that rootstock doesn't seem quite as resistant to RKN because I have seen some on a few plants but I would much rather deal with that than the sudden death of a big healthy plant loaded with tomatoes from bacterial wilt.

Bill

Kazedwards · July 19, 2016

More pics of the spots. I have it on 5 or 6 plants. Any help would be great.

-Zach

bower · July 19, 2016

Never seen anything like it, Zach.

I can tell you it's not grey mold, which is more of a shapeless spreading blob, not spots nor leaf rims.

July 16, 2016	#56
Kazedwards Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 368	What are these spots? They are on the stem and leaves. -Zach __________________ -Zach

July 19, 2016	#59
Kazedwards Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 368	More pics of the spots. I have it on 5 or 6 plants. Any help would be great. -Zach __________________ -Zach

June 29, 2016	#46
Johnniemar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: North carolina Posts: 199	No. I bough those seeds. Can't remember which seed company though.

June 29, 2016	#47
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	Thank God, I would feel terrible if I spread tainted seed around the globe.

July 16, 2016	#52
Shapshftr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Illinois Posts: 162	Your third picture looks like leaf mold, not fusarium wilt: http://tinyurl.com/j9utnhk Also, as b54red pointed out, there is usually yellowing of the leaves in fusarium, and yours don't look yellowed at all. This is fusarium wilt: http://allaboutgrowingtomatoes.blogs...of-tomato.html But that doesn't show the accompanying brown vascular tissue in the stems. Now you say another plant is wilting, but only on one side. That does sound like fusarium wilt, but without the yellowing. Another posibility is fusarium crown and root rot. That will cause the stem to turn brown about 6 inches up from the soil. Maybe you have both: http://allaboutgrowingtomatoes.blogs...-root-rot.html

July 16, 2016	#53
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Hi Shapshftr, I know the leaf mold Fulvia Fulva, which is a dreaded defoliator in my greenhouse on times when it's humid and hot. Leaves turn yellow but as you showed, can be distinguished from other things by the brownish/tan spore masses on the underside of the yellowed leaf. One thing though, to my knowledge it doesn't have any effect on stems - I've never seen a stem affected by it in any way. The only good thing about the leaf mold for me, is that it is not a bit viable when the weather turns colder, so if the plants survive the ravages of the hot spell, they can grow new leaves and carry on. Not so good obviously if you live somewhere it's perpetually humid and hot!

July 16, 2016	#55
Lindalana Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 857	Bower, happy to report, actinovate did the trick, and Pithium is gone. Or at least subsided. I only lost 2 plants instead of the dozen that got affected.

July 17, 2016	#58
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Amending the soil may help but the best alternative and the easiest is to graft onto a rootstock that is more resistant to fusarium wilt and bacterial wilt. I used RST-04-106-T mostly this year and have had no bacterial wilt for the first time in many years. ISPL is not more susceptible to wilt than any other plant that I have noticed. It seems that location in the garden is the most likely suspect with either wilt. ISPL is my most productive black tomato for the last two years. I don't believe fusrium or bacterial wilt is easily transferred with properly saved seeds. I dealt with many instances of both diseases and saved seed from tomatoes from the affected plants sometimes and found no more disease with them than with seeds from plants with no problems. I also had cases of fusarium wilt with fresh seed that I got trading with people up north where fusarium is a rare occurrence. I did find that when the seed were used for the scions in grafts that they never had any problems with the diseases so I think soil is the main culprit. The problem with both diseases is they can be very bad one year and not so bad the next. A cold winter helps a lot with fusarium and a very mild winter like last year makes it worse the next year. These are just observations from someone who fought both diseases for over 35 years in the same location. I tried all kind of amendments but the biggest help was a cold winter. The amendments did make a difference with RKN but did little to alleviate fusarium which was my main problem. The black tomatoes are much more susceptible to gray mold in my experience and it can cause a plant to wilt if it gets bad enough. Soil born diseases like fusarium and bacterial wilt are a constant threat down here with varying severity from year to year. One year fusarium was so bad that in a garden that would only hold about 80 or 90 plants I ended up replanting almost everyone of my plants at least once due to fusarium. Amazingly the Indian Stripes of both leaf types did better than many others when replanted right in the same spot where one plant had just died from ifusarium. Even after I started grafting onto rootstock that was resistant to all three races of fusarium I still would lose from half dozen to a dozen plants to wilt; but when I used one that had some resistance to bacterial wilt as well that seems to have stopped. Of course I have only been using that one for two seasons so possibly it is a fluke but I have to think it isn't. The only problem is that rootstock doesn't seem quite as resistant to RKN because I have seen some on a few plants but I would much rather deal with that than the sudden death of a big healthy plant loaded with tomatoes from bacterial wilt. Bill

July 19, 2016	#60
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Never seen anything like it, Zach. I can tell you it's not grey mold, which is more of a shapeless spreading blob, not spots nor leaf rims.