Need recommendation for a tomato in the south.

[frankcar1965]

Wait, I just checked weather data for Greenville and you have pretty good tomato growing weather! And I'm not seeing a average temp above 90 at all. Of course you get some but not enough to push you over a 90F average. And you don't have an average low over 68F! So those tomatoes may actually be local. I never knew Greenville was so equitable in summer.
http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/w...tes-of-America

[cloz]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Funny you ignore the data from people who study these things and not just grow them in their back yards for fun and others personal experience. And no one at my farmer's market has tomatoes past the first of July. Those that you see at your FM probably are shipped in from somewhere else, make sure what you see there is from your area and from up north. The FM in Dallas has everything you would want to buy all year, most of it is shipped in, it's just a big "market".
I just want Bill to document and have someone look into his methods, their may be something to it after all, why keep it a secret when others can benefit like all of us? I know lots of people here who would want to get tomatoes all summer. I would like it so I did not have to plant something else like watermelons or peas/beans which I have resorted to.

The article you linked to in a previous post stated that high temps and humidity "can" interfere with good pollination. Nowhere does it say it totally shuts off pollination.
I also do not have any problem understanding what Bill is saying when describing how he raises his tomatoes.
I learned long ago to take what is published in so called studies with a grain of salt. Just because it is written somewhere does not make it so.

Cloz

[OzoneNY]

Last year I had a Porter tomato that did set some fruit in July and August. TSWV eventually killed it by late Sept. A few years ago I had a Roma that set fruit all summer but they did not taste so good.

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Wait, I just checked weather data for Greenville and you have pretty good tomato growing weather! And I'm not seeing a average temp above 90 at all. Of course you get some but not enough to push you over a 90F average. And you don't have an average low over 68F! So those tomatoes may actually be local. I never knew Greenville was so equitable in summer.
http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/w...tes-of-America

Averages dont tell the whole story, and saying we have great tomato weather is a joke. Your pulling from one source of averages but I live here and we have long streaks of extreme heat like in 2010 http://www.goupstate.com/article/NC/.../605161743/SJ/
Or last year when it was nearly 90 degrees in October https://weather.com/forecast/regiona...t-october-2016 foloowed by another heat wave and no rain http://newsstand.clemson.edu/mediare...r-s-c-farmers/ So yeah. Stop pretending you know what your talking about and learn to listen to advice from growers who know and have no reason to make up fantasies of heat set miracles. It happens on the reg.

[jtjmartin]

Frank:

You either know you are being intellectually dishonest (a troll) or we need to pity you - not sure which.

Why don't you try Bill's methods this year if you are in doubt? How is it a secret if its posted here and in the article I linked to?

"Bill you do know that this is opposite from all known scientific data?" Frank's Quote, #32. Show me the "scientific" data you refer to instead of calling people liars. "NO ONE I know gets tomatoes all summer why should I believe Bill does?" Frank's Quote, #41

I have a Biology degree and a J.D. I'll be glad to read it and help you understand.

Jeff

[frankcar1965]

I take offense at your nasty troll remark and I am telling you what virtually ALL ag authorities and others for that matter say AND my experience and others growing around me find. Your degrees do not make you some kind of tomato exper,t besides do we really know you, are you really who you say you are? This is the internet. I am Khubla Khan's son for that matter, and please don't throw around "degrees" you have lost all validity with that staetment. Why do you feel the need to attack me just because I call into question someone's growing methods. You have now turned this into a ★★★★ing match with your uncalled for comments.

[frankcar1965]

I did not say you did not have heat streaks, but on average you have great tomato weather. Don't link to an excessive heat period and call that your weather, you know should know better. You should stop telling me to listen and quit conflating the data which can be verified now that we have this thing called the internet.

[frankcar1965]

This discussion is over for me since it has turned nasty and personal just for disagreeing with someone's methods. So much for free discussion, isn't this what this is for? Maybe not.

[jtjmartin]

Frank:

I'm surprised that you are so easily offended after suggesting that multiple people were lying on this thread.

I'm also surprised that you feel the thread just turned nasty and personal - you feel that your previous comments were not nasty and personal? I'll paste some in below:

"You are the first person I have ever heard that says tomatoes set in high heat." #27
So, Bill posts pictures of his tomatoes setting fruit in high temps. Your response:
"Well ok but I would have to see it to believe it." #29 Bill just showed you the pics - you saw it! The only implication I can draw is that you don't believe Bill - Bill is lying.

"Bill you do know that this is opposite from all known scientific data? My own experience and all Ag recommendations and advice tell the opposite story. I think if you really are getting pollination out of tomatoes in the heat possibly you might need to have someone document your methods and study them. No one like myself will never believe it until it is verified by another authority . . . " #32

"I do not call a few misshapen fruits a crop and really do not believe Bill." #41

All known data? All Ag recs? "If you really are getting pollination . . ." What, you believe he is just lying? "No one . . . never believe . . ."

Others tell you that they get fruitset in high temps and you ignore them "frank, I'm in SW Louisiana. Although I have never specifically paid attention to fruit set during the heat of summer, I can say for sure I have had plants set fruit straight through the heat of summer." #38 "I have always had tomatoes set in high heat. I mean everyone that grows them does I would think." #44

Or worse, you question their honesty:
"Funny you ignore the data from people who study these things. . ." #45
"Wait, I just checked weather data for Greenville and you have pretty good tomato growing weather! And I'm not seeing a average temp above 90 at all." #46

Why don't you rethink your comments . . . I'll rethink mine and we can all live happy in Tville.

Kubla

[b54red]

Listen I love this site and don't mind a good argument over methods and results but this has gone too far. I was just trying to impart a little of the information that I have learned in over 40 years of growing tomatoes in an area with a lot of problems many due to the nearness of so many commercial tomato growers. The large fields of tomatoes invite big invasions of tomato specific pests and diseases making the heat and humidity problems worse than they would be otherwise. Years ago the growers would just leave the tomatoes in the field untended for months after the harvesting was over multiplying the bad affects of large field production but in more recent years they have been getting them out soon after the harvesting has ended for the most part.

I feel rather stupid that I wasn't more observant years ago and figured out much sooner many of the things I have learned that make success more likely; but working more than full time, being married, fishing regularly, and raising three boys didn't allow me the time to concentrate on just one hobby like I do now. I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut and let everyone learn the hard way like I did. As my brother in law says so frequently "No good deed goes unpunished". Every time I figured something out or learned it the hard way the thought always occurred to me how much it would have helped to have known that years ago so I try to let other dedicated growers know what I have found out. Many of the things I try don't work out at all and I usually don't mention them and others are just things I observe and would like some feedback on. Since I have been growing tomatoes through the summer for quite a few years and have had some success with it and shown that I have had some consistency I thought it was worth passing on.

One year all my tomato plants died that were set out in early March and I'm not sure what killed them as it was years ago but looking back I believe it was probably TSWV which I was unfamiliar with at the time. The plants started dying on me left and right about a month after planting so I started new seed in April and was unable to get them big enough to set out until June 15. I didn't think I would have much of a year because of the super late start; but surprisingly I had a really good season. The soil was so hot at the time that I went ahead and mulched it heavily and watered it well the day before planting in hopes of more of the seedlings surviving. After that I decided to at least try one planting later than my initial all in planting using more of the varieties that did well that year; but with my fusarium problems getting worse all the time I ended up doing more and more late planting. Most of the time the later plantings were not so good until I started fertilizing them more regularly with TTF and using cypress mulch instead of grass clippings and straw. Not being a total idiot it dawned on me that doing more of what was seemingly working seemed like a good idea; so I did. This was before I started my staggered planting of grafted plants. Once the grafting eased my fusarium problems I have been more and more successful with this method; but I still have let downs with one variety or another at one time or the other. Some years disease pressure is worse or pest problems or the weather is worse but since I started grafting and staggered planting dates I haven't had a total flop of a season. I'm sure that I will have a bad summer season again because I still have less than stellar spring seasons sometimes but that's just the breaks down here.

I just someone would figure out how to be more successful with bell peppers down here and pass it on to me. Last year was the worst year with bell peppers that I have experienced in at least 20 years. It wasn't just me either because everyone I knew that grew them had a terrible year so it probably had to do with the weather or some unknown blight. I plan on putting up shade cloth this year and see if that helps. I am also going to plant sweet potatoes under my bells this year because one year I had some spring up under them and it was one of my best pepper years ever but I did have to keep clipping the vines to stop them from growing up the plants too much. I don't know if it will make a difference but I'm game enough to try it again even if the vines can be a pain. I have also found that the cypress mulch helps them a lot during the hot summer months and helps keep them from getting eaten up so bad by flea beetles when they are young. Any other helpful hints about growing bell peppers from others growing in very hot conditions would be appreciated by me because I have run out of ideas other than doing what has worked in the past.

Bill

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

I did not say you did not have heat streaks, but on average you have great tomato weather. Don't link to an excessive heat period and call that your weather, you know should know better. You should stop telling me to listen and quit conflating the data which can be verified now that we have this thing called the internet.

My point was to show that even in heat waves when we have 58 days straight of 90+ degree weather I was picking tomatoes. I am a market farmer and every grower I know can get tomatoes to set all summer. Call Clemson ag extension 864-596-2993 if hearing it from them would help you.

[FredB]

Getting back to the original topic (tomato varieties for the South), Southern Exposure Seed Exchange has two multi-disease resistant OP varieties: Tropic VFN and Mortgage Lifter VFN. Both are resistant to fusarium race 1 and nematodes, but unfortunately neither is listed as having resistance to the other two races of fusarium.

[Gardeneer]

Well, I will be growing several varieties that are said to set fruits in the high heat/humidity of deep sourth and they are :
--Pruden's Purple
-- Creole
-- Super Sioux
-- IS PL
-- Big Beef
In addition to those I will grow 25 other varieties as well.
Come July/August I should be able to evaluate them. And I will review them when the time comes.

[AlittleSalt]

Gardeneer, I got those planted except Creole. I'll put it on the list to plant in the second planting. I should explain:

I start tomato seeds as close to January 1rst as I can - this year it was January 8th due to me taking too long to figure out what pepper varieties to start earlier...Which threw my tomato planting schedule off by a week. Anyway, I give my first tomato seeds planted 10 days to 2 weeks to come up. If some don't germinate, I plant other varieties to take their place = the second planting.

For the second planting, I only plant varieties that are short to mid season. Creole fits that description. As long as I have them in seed cells before February 1 - they have a good chance here. The second planting is also a good time to plant some crosses, your personal Sungold F4s - that sort of thing. I have 45 varieties of that sort of thing.

[Gardeneer]

Robert, although we are in deep south here, but the historical weather data (that I have pulled ) show that frost can happen (10% probability ) until April 10 ? 11 ? although average high are about 65F from mid March on. and average March lows is about 42F. Those are very good tomato starting temperatures.
So here is what I am going to do: Star some tomatoes with peppers, eggplants tomorrow. Then start some more in Feb. Being my first season hear all I know is the weather data.

Gotta get to work.