Molasses, Did You Know? - Page 4

Crandrew · May 13, 2012

So ami when I hear you reference your exel lg+actinovate+molasses mix I can see that you have incorporated a sticker, but how come not a spreader?

amideutch · May 13, 2012

Quote:

So ami when I hear you reference your exel lg+actinovate+molasses mix I can see that you have incorporated a sticker, but how come not a spreader?

I've used both and the type of leaves that a tomato plant has lends itself very well to a sticker and with the Molasses I'm giving nutes to the plant as well as the bioorganisms in the soil. Ami

Crandrew · May 13, 2012

Sorry I guess I'm not stating my question right.

Why do you not use a spreader and only a sticker?

Wi-sunflower · May 14, 2012

For anyone interested in personal health, I recommend reading the molasses link to page 3. There is a great copy of research on HFCS. High Fructose Corn Sugar.

I always believed sites that said it wasn't good for you and wasn't processed by your body the same as plain sugar. But most sites don't actually provide the reasons WHY. It's there on page 3.

Carol

BarbJ · May 14, 2012

For those in England, I think Treacle is the same as Molasses, especially the dark one.

TightenUp · May 14, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Actually we are talking two different animals with "Spreader/Stickers.

Spreaders would be dish soap, COCO Wet, anything that reduces surface tension and allow complete coverage of the surface.

Stickers would be your Molasses and Yucca that make the product stick to the plants surface.

I have used all of the above and found molasses works best for me which I also add to my soil drenches as I said in my last post.

The only reason I can see in not using BioGrow for a sticker is it's viscosity is lower than that of molasses which makes it more suited for the job. Otherwise use the BioGrow if you prefer.
Ami

Thanks Ami

i've been using the two words interchangeably and wrongfully so. thanks for clearing that up. anyways i got some good old fashioned grandmas molasses in the cabinet that i used this weekend with my foliage sprays and then i stuck to the biogrow as supplemental liquid fert to go along with my happy frog

greentiger87 · September 8, 2012

I wanted to add a note of caution with molasses. When I first really serious about organic gardening a couple of years ago, I often made the common mistake of "more is better", and used large amounts of molasses (1 cup per 1.5 gallons) in a plant drench. Many of the plants that got the drench, of different species and in different places in my garden, got some kind of root rot (probably Pythium) and keeled over. I had never experienced any kind of soil-borne pathogen before, so I was shocked.

Large amounts of simple carbohydrates promote rapid growth of microorganisms (especially bacteria), which one hopes would outcompete those parasitic on plants. Unfortunately, several kinds of soil-borne pathogens also respond to simple sugars, which closely resemble the exudates they drain from root tips when germinating. Pythium, for example, is well known for germinating and becoming virulent in the presence of large amounts of sucrose, which is an easy carbon source for almost every microorganism.

Similarly, higher concentrations of simple carbs used as foliar sprays have been shown support pathogens, especially oomycetes. They also encourage fungi like sooty mold, which are mostly irrelevant.

In any case, a typical dose of molasses for a foliar spray would be 1 tablespoon per gallon, and no more. Applying liquid molasses as a soil drench is best limited to when you don't actually have important plants in the ground, or at least when they're very mature. It should only be in addition large amounts of organic matter full of complex carbohydrates, like wood/leaves/etc. Dry molasses is usually spray dried onto cornmeal grain residues, so it's unlikely to cause problems.

The concentration issue is supported by some research. For example, it's been shown that less than 50g sugar/liter of water added to irrigation at the time of planting landscape trees significantly improves their root vigor and branching. But 70g produced either no change, or was detrimental (worse than control). The authors didn't investigate a mechanism, but noted that sugars have been shown to alter gene expression away from shoot growth and toward root growth, and that osmotic stress may account for the problems with high concentrations.

I certainly can't pretend to know everything about this, but hopefully this note will save someone from my mistakes.

amideutch · September 8, 2012

Quote:

Similarly, higher concentrations of simple carbs used as foliar sprays have been shown support pathogens, especially oomycetes.

1 Tablespoon per gallon is correct. Normally I use Molasses as a sticker when applying EXEL LG and Actinovate. Phosphorous Acid, the primary ingredient in EXEL LG is very effective in controlling oomycetes so should not be a factor.

As long as you are making periodic applications of fungicides to control disease and have inoculated your plants with Myco's,Trichoderma and Bacteria on plant out molasses as a periodic soil drench will feed the bacteria and fungi you inoculated the plants with.

More and more liquid organic fertilizers are sugar based either derived from sugar beets or cane which is the case for the BioBizz BioGrow I have been using for the last 5 years with excellent results.

Bottom line is as long as you keep the dosage to 1 Tbls per gallon of water you should not have any problems. I cup of molasses per gallon of water,

holy molley aunt molly, now that can cause some problems. Ami

ScottinAtlanta · September 9, 2012

Is there any reason not to add Daconil and molasses to the same mix?

amideutch · September 9, 2012

Scott, From what I have heard and what Carolyn was told by the reps Daconil should not be applied with a spreader sticker. As far as using Daconil together with Actinovate and Exel LG I don't know. Next year i'm going to do an experiment on a couple plants with all three and see what happens. Ami

ScottinAtlanta · September 9, 2012

I guess I am looking for one perfect mix that minimizes my spray time. It seems there are two mixes needed: Daconil, and then everything else.

amideutch · September 9, 2012

Scott, the only product that I know of that does it all which I have talked about before is Azoxystrobin. Unfortunately the cost has been the limiting factor.

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/pesticides/...oxystrobin.pdf

greentiger87 · September 9, 2012

I think there was a thread here where the Natural Industries rep said Actinovate could be mixed with Daconil. I usually do that. Daconil must have spreader-sticker included in the concentrate right?

RayR · September 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by greentiger87

I think there was a thread here where the Natural Industries rep said Actinovate could be mixed with Daconil. I usually do that. Daconil must have spreader-sticker included in the concentrate right?

Yep, We've found out that Actinovate can be mixed with a lot of things, including low rates of Copper Fungicides.
If a product doesn't require a spreader-sticker or says not to use one, that usually means it either has one included or the product itself acts as a spreader-sticker.

amideutch · September 9, 2012

Quote:

I think there was a thread here where the Natural Industries rep said Actinovate could be mixed with Daconil. I usually do that. Daconil must have spreader-sticker included in the concentrate right?

Being a protectant I would think so. My normal routine is applying Actinovate, EXEL LG with Molasses and alternating with Azoxystrobin. I find this combination covers all bases disease wise and keeps the Azoxystrobin applications to about 4-5 during the season which is recommended. When applying the Azoxystrobin I use with Coco-Wet which is an organic, nonionic wetting agent. Ami

September 8, 2012	#52
greentiger87 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Houston, TX - 9a Posts: 211	I wanted to add a note of caution with molasses. When I first really serious about organic gardening a couple of years ago, I often made the common mistake of "more is better", and used large amounts of molasses (1 cup per 1.5 gallons) in a plant drench. Many of the plants that got the drench, of different species and in different places in my garden, got some kind of root rot (probably Pythium) and keeled over. I had never experienced any kind of soil-borne pathogen before, so I was shocked. Large amounts of simple carbohydrates promote rapid growth of microorganisms (especially bacteria), which one hopes would outcompete those parasitic on plants. Unfortunately, several kinds of soil-borne pathogens also respond to simple sugars, which closely resemble the exudates they drain from root tips when germinating. Pythium, for example, is well known for germinating and becoming virulent in the presence of large amounts of sucrose, which is an easy carbon source for almost every microorganism. Similarly, higher concentrations of simple carbs used as foliar sprays have been shown support pathogens, especially oomycetes. They also encourage fungi like sooty mold, which are mostly irrelevant. In any case, a typical dose of molasses for a foliar spray would be 1 tablespoon per gallon, and no more. Applying liquid molasses as a soil drench is best limited to when you don't actually have important plants in the ground, or at least when they're very mature. It should only be in addition large amounts of organic matter full of complex carbohydrates, like wood/leaves/etc. Dry molasses is usually spray dried onto cornmeal grain residues, so it's unlikely to cause problems. The concentration issue is supported by some research. For example, it's been shown that less than 50g sugar/liter of water added to irrigation at the time of planting landscape trees significantly improves their root vigor and branching. But 70g produced either no change, or was detrimental (worse than control). The authors didn't investigate a mechanism, but noted that sugars have been shown to alter gene expression away from shoot growth and toward root growth, and that osmotic stress may account for the problems with high concentrations. I certainly can't pretend to know everything about this, but hopefully this note will save someone from my mistakes. Last edited by greentiger87; September 8, 2012 at 05:07 PM.

September 9, 2012	#55
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Scott, From what I have heard and what Carolyn was told by the reps Daconil should not be applied with a spreader sticker. As far as using Daconil together with Actinovate and Exel LG I don't know. Next year i'm going to do an experiment on a couple plants with all three and see what happens. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

May 13, 2012	#46
Crandrew Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: asdf Posts: 1,202	So ami when I hear you reference your exel lg+actinovate+molasses mix I can see that you have incorporated a sticker, but how come not a spreader?

May 14, 2012	#49
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	For anyone interested in personal health, I recommend reading the molasses link to page 3. There is a great copy of research on HFCS. High Fructose Corn Sugar. I always believed sites that said it wasn't good for you and wasn't processed by your body the same as plain sugar. But most sites don't actually provide the reasons WHY. It's there on page 3. Carol

May 14, 2012	#50
BarbJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: California, USA Posts: 154	For those in England, I think Treacle is the same as Molasses, especially the dark one.

September 9, 2012	#54
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Is there any reason not to add Daconil and molasses to the same mix?