Lets talk plum/paste tomatoes and sauce

[Zana]

Wouldn't have known to even ask about those....not a variety I'd seen before or with which I was familiar. Thanks for sharing the pics....and all those seeds to Mark! You were an angel of tomato seed bounty.

[korney19]

Hahahaha! An angel? Looks are deceiving... I was actually an altar boy when I was a kid... probably wouldn't have thought that now, huh!

[Zana]

roflmao! ahhhhhhhhhh that explains the pumpkin covering the....ahem....horns....er....halo....lol Now I understand. But regardless you were very generous to give so many seeds away to us. Thanks once again.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Zana

Wouldn't have known to even ask about those....not a variety I'd seen before or with which I was familiar. Thanks for sharing the pics....and all those seeds to Mark! You were an angel of tomato seed bounty.

Zana, A few years back I had a student from Ethiopia named Tadesse Wuhib and when he went back to Addis Abbaba for a visit I asked him to bring back what he could in the way of tomato seed.

He got two for me, and I named one Tadesse and the other Wuhib. How clever of me, right?

Wuhib is the more available commercially than is Tadesse.

It was from my student Heidi Iyok who was from Cameroon that I got the excellent variety I cleverly named Heidi, which has become a favorite of many.

Lest you think that I demanded that all my students try to give me tomato seeds in order to pass a course, I didn 't, , but I also told them of my interest and so in that way got such varieties as Gogosha, Ilse's Yellow ( the woman's basketball team was composed of over 6 ft tall ladies from Latvia) and several varieties from the Ukraine.

The faculty were not exempt and from some of them I got Omar's Lebanese, Opalka, Soldacki, Crnkovic Yugoslavian and more. From the maintenance man who was working in the ladies bathroom I got Chris Ukrainian.

And so it goes.

[Zana]

Thanks for the background info, Carolyn. Love to hear that kind of stuff. Even when you might find some of these varieties commercially, they don't always give the original history, and if they do it isn't complete. I'll make notes. Thanks again for clearing up that mystery for me.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

No, I haven't Mark and Matt D' Imperio isn't a heart anyway.

Before I get another e-mail from my brother asking me if I found our great grandfathers' discharge papers from the Civil War that has first prioirity.

I can't get to many places here in my home with my walker so my brother said he'd even pay Freda to rummage through the large closet that's off my bedroom.

Are you willing to pay Freda to look for that 2004 growout data?

YES, I will pay Freda Dr. Lyle seeds!

[Granny]

One of the things that I have been doing which also happens to get rid of a lot of spare juice is to peel a whole bunch of tomatoes at once and put the peeled, cored tomatoes in a giant ziplock in the fridge overnight. (I've got a rhythm down - peel today, can tomorrow, repeat.) By the next day there is a good quantity of juice in the bottom of the bag. I just drain that off if I am making something that needs concentrated tomato.

[carolyn137]

YES, I will pay Freda Dr. Lyle seeds!

****

Sorry Mark, but Freda can have any of the many hundreds of seeds I have in the back room and that includes Dr. Lyle.

Right now she's up in New Hampshire with her son, his fiancee and her parents for the Nextel NASCAR race tomorrow.

I think she could be bribed if you could stand the expense of a used Jeff Gordon car.

[Fusion_power]

1. The Rio Grande picture posted by Mark is not Rio Grande. This tomato was developed from a complex cross with other tomato species and carries a genetic combination that causes a white line down the side of many of the fruit. This trait is common in the disease tolerant wild parent line. Rio Grande is not described in the NCSU data although there are references to it in comparison with other varieties. The correct Rio Grande is an elongated plum shape on a heavily productive determinate rugose leaf plant. It is susceptible to foliage diseases but is VFN tolerant. It has serious problems with bacterial speck and spot here in the southeast but this is not a problem in drier climates.

2. Heidi is determinate, not indeterminate. The photos shown are not quite consistent with fruit shape, most of the fruit produced are a pear shape with a slim bulb. Heidi is the most temperature tolerant paste tomato I've grown. It is also extremely productive. I have gathered up to 1 gallon of fruit per plant at a single picking and most plants produce 4 or more gallons each. Heidi is susceptible to nematodes but otherwise is a healthy and productive tomato.


3. Bisignano #2 should be given a bit more review. It is a productive dense good flavored tomato that makes a heavy crop.

I would also add a couple of varieties worth growing. Christopher Columbus is a pretty good sauce or paste variety. If you are into dried tomatoes, Borgo Cellano is better than Principe Borghese.

Last note is about the brix ratings. Almost all available varieties of tomato produce sucrose but then use enzymes to break it down into fructose and glucose in the fruit or else chain it up into starches. The result is fruit with low sugar content and corresponding low brix. Several wild species of tomato have a gene that prohibits enzyme production therefore sucrose accumulates in the fruit. These tomatoes have brix ratings up to 14. The super sweet tomato varieties available today are a result of breeding programs to fix the trait from wild species into commercial varieties. A crossbreeding program using brix tests could easily transfer this trait to some good open pollinated varieties.

Fusion

[carolyn137]

Fusion, I can't speak to Rio Grande for I've never grown it but I can speak to Heidi since as you know I introduved it.

You say determinate, I waffle and say semi-determinate, as I did in my book. And I couldn't be happier that so many folks are finding out about this excellent variety from Cameroon.

Now it's about Borgo Cellano. I know you like it. I don't. Chuck Wyatt was the first to list it and he sent me seeds and I grew it, just the once I admit. It had an earthy taste that just wasn't to my liking, but each person has to decide for themselves whether or not they like it.

Furthermore, I don't like the history that Chuck got with it and also listed re it being a variety that was 400 years old.

[korney19]

A couple comments.

Rio Grande is actually VFF not VFN. My original source was Chuck Wyatt... perhaps in 2000 or 2001. I know Fusion is saying that my pic doesn't look like a large plum, but mine were always variably shaped, never always the same on 1 plant. It's often described as "blocky round" and sometimes mine look more globe or deep globe shaped than plum. The plant has dark green rugose leaves.

I looked at TGS as well as Tanager's and both have different looking shapes. I think I may even have a seed packet somewhere from Pennington Seed and they also look more deep globe than plum if I remember correctly.

As for the white line you're talking about, I've never noticed it, neither with Chuck's or Pennington's. Maybe you can post a pic of it.

Another pic of Rio Grande:

http://www.tanagersongfarm.com/heirl...ogrande00w.jpg

[Earl]

Not sure if I can add to the conversation? If I don't have them bassasswards, here's [left] Baylor Paste and [right] Rio Grande that I grew this year. Next picture shows two quarts of canned tomatoes and I'm pretty sure they're either Rio Grande or Baylor Paste or a mixture as I just canned them yesterday.

Anyway, they sure do look good and will be yummy this Jan/Feb., :-). And for sure I'll be thinking about all of you that don't can tomatoes, and feeling real sorry for you. :-)

[Suze]

Originally Posted by where_with_all

Suze-- you have recommended Sarnowski on several places on this board. I would love to get your input on Sarnowski compared to the others I have mentioned and as a different view from Mark.

I may not be the best person to take advice from on this subject. As I've said before, I'm really not into growing paster types per se, and taste is really the #1 consideration for me. If I don't think a variety is good for fresh eating too, I generally won't bother with it again.

Sarnowski - I don't count fruits, but one plant was probably good for close to 200. Your experience may vary, and mine may vary too in a hotter year. Very good flavor.

Kalman's - usually only moderate productivity. Very good to even excellent flavor. More productive for me in cooler years (like this year).

Speckled Roman - what I'd consider to be a "novelty". Taste just isn't there, very pretty though. Productivity on the high side of moderate.

Wagner - haven't grown it.

[Fusion_power]

Mark,

I have some known good Rio Grande if you would like to try them. Chuck grew seed out in his garden and got lots of bee made crosses. If you dig out the old references, it is consistently described as an elongated oval variety. You are correct on the VFF rating but in my garden, they are also more tolerant of nematodes than most varieties I grow. Some varieties show nematode tolerance by being so vigorous that they outgrow nematode damage. This may be what Rio Grande does.

Re Heidi, Couldn't agree more that it is an outstanding paste variety. I would argue pretty hard that it is a vigorous determinate. My plants rarely get over 3 feet tall, but they are very bushy with numerous side branches. They are also very consistent year to year with little variation in fruit size or shape.

As for Borgo Celano, it is pretty bad if you try to eat it sliced, flavor is bland, aroma is mild, and texture is somewhat mealy. The flavor only comes out when it has been concentrated by either drying or else cooking down as a paste tomato. Remind me next year to grow some, dry them, and send you a sample. I think you will be surprised at how good they are.

Fusion

[gardengalrn]

I have included Bully's Ernesto and Rinaldo in my canning plans. Not actually pastes but very meaty, very big, and fine flavor. I planted one of each last year in pots and they produced like wildfire. I can't wait to get some in the garden and see what happens.