Diatomaceous Earth as a seed starting medium

[natekurz]

Originally Posted by RayR

I've never seen SelectSorb, it is supposed to be a fine granular, smaller than Ultrasorb. Could you post a picture of the stuff so we can see what it looks like?.

I haven't seen the others, so I can't compare. But hopefully the picture will help.

Edit: Not sure why it shows a broken icon for the picture, but it seems to work when clicked on directly.

[Larry636]

Quote:
"I am beyond happy. You can't know how frustrating damping off had become for me. Every time I planted seed I had to plant far more than necessary or even useful to give away if most survived. I tried fans running all the time to keep the air moving and to try to keep the surface of seed starting mixes dry enough so the damping off wouldn't occur so much but with our humidity hovering around 100 % many days it was impossible. I even installed an air conditioner in my small greenhouse to help with the humidity and it helped some. I tried hydrogen peroxide, distilled water, boiled water, teas, Captan, mycorrhizae, bleach and many, many seed starting mixes. The results were dismal until I tried the DE with very low expectations only to be awed by the almost total lack of damping off. The only instances of damping off with the DE were slight in a couple of egg cartons that I left in the bottom watering tray for a couple of days by accident.

The results with certain slow or poor germinating seed like spinach, cilantro, okra and peppers were just as amazing.

Ray I wish you had this idea years ago.

Bill "

Bill Hi

Spinach germination has been very troublesome for me and I am very glad to hear DE has worked so well for you. Do you pot up spinach into potting soil? I was wondering if it could be transplanted directly into the bed without potting up. I will be using both opti and ultrasorb for seed starting.


Larry

[RayR]

Originally Posted by natekurz

I haven't seen the others, so I can't compare. But hopefully the picture will help.

Edit: Not sure why it shows a broken icon for the picture, but it seems to work when clicked on directly.

Good pic.
It has a lot of small 1mm granules like the UltraSorb from AutoZone, but has more larger granules mixed in so it's not finer than the AutoZone Ultrasorb I bought. I would expect there is some inconsistencies between batches.

[b54red]

Larry, I have done both with spinach. The trouble with growing it out in the small egg carton cells to a size large enough to transplant directly is being careful to keep it fertilized sufficiently and also not letting the UltraSorb dry out so much it kills the plants. The plants will grow much faster when potted up into regular potting soil than it will in the small egg carton cells of DE. I like potting it up into Styrofoam coffee cups with a good potting soil when it is still fairly small as soon as true leaves start forming; but I have done it even sooner. I make sure the DE is nice and damp so it will scoop out cleanly and just set it into a hole in the potting soil in the cup. It is best to leave spinach in the coffee cup long enough to form a bit of a root ball so you can remove it more easily from the cup when transplanting into the garden; but I have done it much earlier but you have to be more careful.

Bill

[Larry636]

Bill

Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I will be able to get an early start on the season that is if I can muster up the energy to get the bed ready.

Larry

[Alpinejs]

I prefer to use Miracle Grow Starter mix as, once I remove the big branches
and saw it into firwood size, I have my winter's supply of firewood and then
by adding chicken manure to the remainder and letting it compost for a couple
of years, I have some really fine growing soil.

[MissS]

Originally Posted by Alpinejs

I prefer to use Miracle Grow Starter mix as, once I remove the big branches
and saw it into firwood size, I have my winter's supply of firewood and then
by adding chicken manure to the remainder and letting it compost for a couple
of years, I have some really fine growing soil.

LOL
! I LOVE IT. Great PR.... for the Wonderous Miracle Grow soils?

Patti

[greentiger87]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

What very coarse optisorb did you use and from where? I'm less impressed with the DE as seed starting than others but the orchid application has me intrigued.

Sorry I didn't notice this until a year later...but it's a coarse granulation of DE, branded as Optisorb, that I used for the orchids. That phalaenopsis that I saved about a year ago is putting out its first spike! I have no idea what they'll look like, since this thing was half dead with one live root when I stuck it in the DE. Big thank you to Ray!

Note, this is still much smaller than the chunky diatomite often sold to use as a component in orchid mixes. In addition, I'm not sure how well this would work with orchids other than Phalaenopsis. I've read that Phals like their roots wetter than most, which is why they can survive in the sphagnum moss they're potted up in at the big box stores.

Each individual piece of DE holds lots of water and releases it fairly easily.. but the angular shapes still provide air penetration and no perched water - and it hardly deteriorates with time. In that sense it's far superior to sphagnum. I don't know if it's superior to the very coarse/airy bark mixtures that orchid experts use when watered daily and in a humid greenhouse environment. The key point for me is that I can go relatively long periods without watering - you have to be more diligent with the bark mixes.

[claherron]

I finally finished this thread, whew! I am going to start seed in DE this year. I purchased the Diatomite from NAPA and my plan is to use 2oz plastic cups, the ones for Jell-O shots. Cool feature of the cups is the lid so I won't have to use a sheet is plastic wrap. I am thinking cut a slit in the bottom of the cup and put it in the standard flat. Question 1 will the cups float? Question 2 should I remove the cups or just leave in the water? Looking forward to this last year my seed starting was awful!


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[RayR]

Originally Posted by claherron

I finally finished this thread, whew! I am going to start seed in DE this year. I purchased the Diatomite from NAPA and my plan is to use 2oz plastic cups, the ones for Jell-O shots. Cool feature of the cups is the lid so I won't have to use a sheet is plastic wrap. I am thinking cut a slit in the bottom of the cup and put it in the standard flat. Question 1 will the cups float? Question 2 should I remove the cups or just leave in the water? Looking forward to this last year my seed starting was awful!

The cups won't float, DE has no buoyancy like perlite , it wicks up water fast.
I would leave a thin layer of water in the tray at all times to replace what evaporates out of the media and what transpires out of the seedlings. Don't forget to feed them, you can use a light nutrient solution from the beginning or later when the seedling form first true leaves.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by claherron

I finally finished this thread, whew! I am going to start seed in DE this year. I purchased the Diatomite from NAPA and my plan is to use 2oz plastic cups, the ones for Jell-O shots. Cool feature of the cups is the lid so I won't have to use a sheet is plastic wrap. I am thinking cut a slit in the bottom of the cup and put it in the standard flat. Question 1 will the cups float? Question 2 should I remove the cups or just leave in the water? Looking forward to this last year my seed starting was awful!


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Since you are in the south I would recommend that you not leave the cups in water as that encourages damping off down here. You will find it much easier to use egg cartons than 2 ounce cups because you can move them around much easier and not worry about tipping them over. It is also easier to spoon the DE plugs out of egg cartons when you want to pot them up or transplant.

Bill

[claherron]

Thanks, will go the egg carton route instead. So you bottom water 2-3 min and take the out?


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[b54red]

Originally Posted by claherron

Thanks, will go the egg carton route instead. So you bottom water 2-3 min and take the out?


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I punch 4 or 5 holes in the bottom of the egg carton cells with a small wooden skewer. It makes a hole big enough for good water flow but not large enough for the DE to escape. I put a piece of duck tape over the two holes in the lid of the egg carton and use it for a bottom watering tray for when the plants need to be put outside.

When I am starting seeds I go ahead and cut my egg cartons in two, punch holes in the bottom of the cells, and then label the closure flap for whatever seeds I am going to use. I then put several inches of water in a small tub. I then fill the egg cells with DE then set it in the water for a little while usually only 30 seconds or so. I then seed the cells and sprinkle with a little fresh DE, just enough to cover the seed, then set it back in the water til the covering DE is moist then set them out. I use this method for cucumbers, tomatoes, peppers, cilantro, okra, spinach, cabbage, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, and lettuce. For onions I use a deep 8" pot filled with DE making sure to put something porous in the bottom to cover the drain holes so the DE won't escape. This allows for much deeper roots and less of a mess when I separate the onions and plant them. For squash and beans I just use potting soil in a Styrofoam coffee cup because I rarely get damping off with them and they will usually germinate fine in just the potting soil.

Bill

[claherron]

Ok I just gave it a shot. I am using a 36 cell tray. I planted cucumbers, peas, carrots and toms. I left one cell empty for watering. When the seedlings get some size to them I will transplant to root cups, I haven't decided on DE or potting soil for he root cups. I don't have a method of dipping the cells in and out of the water so I hope this works. I would assume damping off could be a problem. Also I was shocked how much water the DE absorbed and after 2 mins the surface still has some dry spots.


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[peppero]

thanks to Bill, Ray and others I finally went down to AutoZone and purchased an 8# bag for a total of $3.27. I am optimistic.

jon