Diluted Bleach as Spray?

[Carriehelene]

Bill, I did 4 oz in 1 gallon of concentrate Clorox last evening for a case of EB. I'm sorry to say it had no effect. Suggestions?

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Carriehelene

Bill, I did 4 oz in 1 gallon of concentrate Clorox last evening for a case of EB. I'm sorry to say it had no effect. Suggestions?

That solution is not strong enough. Use 5oz Clorox Ultra added to 1 gal. Of water with a little soap added for better wetting then spray both sides of the leaves making sure to get all the stems and the mulch or soil under the plants. Then give it 48 hours and see how it does. You can go up to 5 1/2 oz but much higher could result in some healthy leaf burn.

Then clip off the diseased leaves and apply Daconil as a preventative. You can use the bleach spray as often as needed.

Bill

[BlackBear]

I have to report that this simple solution......IS USEFUL !

I made a premeasure cup marked at 8oz/ one cup... and one cup of regular strength bleach goes into a 4 liter milk jug .

one can still dilute the main mix slightly in a sprayer if one thinks the solution is a bit strong .

And of course do not apply in full hot sun etc..........

I am soooo surprised how well this works ....I guess early intervention to the various diseases

helps ...and not to let things go to far with out trying to help .


Can anybody verify again what diseases this seems to be helpful .......

Is this really as useful as It seems ? If so ......more Tomatovillians should have this technique in their bag of tricks .

[Jeanus]

So far helps against early blight and leaf septoria. I will need to spray again tonight because of the rain but as long as I keep up with pruning and spraying, it seem to be helping. I haven't used full strength working my way up to see what I need for strength wise.

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by per2012

So, the bleach spray does not affect healthy plant growth and has no long term environmental impact to the plant or the fruit. The spray kills diseased growth even if the disease is unseen by the naked eye. What's the harm in spraying my plants (let's say every 4 or 5 days) even though they show no signs of disease?

Hypochlorite is an oxidizing agent which will not differentiate between healthy & unhealthy plant growth. If you plan on drenching living leaves then you must determine a concentration which will oxidize/kill the disease without oxidizing the organics in the leaves. Think about a swimming pool - enough chlorine (hypochlorite) in the water to neutralize amines & kill bacteria, but not enough to kill you.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by RJGlew

Hypochlorite is an oxidizing agent which will not differentiate between healthy & unhealthy plant growth. If you plan on drenching living leaves then you must determine a concentration which will oxidize/kill the disease without oxidizing the organics in the leaves. Think about a swimming pool - enough chlorine (hypochlorite) in the water to neutralize amines & kill bacteria, but not enough to kill you.

I spent a whole season years ago figuring out the right level for maximum effect with minimum damage to healthy tissue and also figuring out a level that is effective but maybe not as much as the ideal. Then they went and changed the formulation of Clorox and I had to do it over again. The range I came up with using the new Ultra Clorox was between 4.5 and 5.5 oz of bleach added to a full gallon of water. If you are dealing with very wet leaves and a persistent disease you can go up to 6 oz but you might have a bit of leaf damage. I use it on almost everything that has foliage disease issues and use the same strength on everything. I do however try to cut it back a little if I plan on spraying peppers along with my tomatoes because the leaves are a little more sensitive to the bleach sometimes. I personally almost always use between 5 and 5 1/2 oz to the gallon of water. With very young seedlings in the greenhouse I may go down to the 4 1/2 oz mix and with something like Late Blight I will use 6 oz. because LB is almost impossible to stop.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Jeanus

So far helps against early blight and leaf septoria. I will need to spray again tonight because of the rain but as long as I keep up with pruning and spraying, it seem to be helping. I haven't used full strength working my way up to see what I need for strength wise.

It is also the most effective thing against Gray Mold that I have used. It will also help with Late Blight but only if you start spraying very early at the first appearance of the disease and spray often and everywhere.

Bill

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by b54red

I spent a whole season years ago figuring out the right level for maximum effect with minimum damage to healthy tissue and also figuring out a level that is effective but maybe not as much as the ideal.
Bill

Bill - Your work is very interesting - thank you for sharing. The folks who view themselves as being most ecologically informed refer to bleach as a "toxic bath" - have you had any push back from those folks to your research?

[BlackBear]

I think when the temps hit an all time record breaking stretch I started to see

a few stress showing up as disease on a few plants ....a bit of

powdery mildew beginnings ??? a bit of septoria ?/ early blight ?....eeeks

not a normal occurrence around here .

I mixed a bit of this formula up and sprayed fine mist in cool evening (not in full sun ) on a few select plants with various looking leaf maladies .

I am truly shocked ...how well it seemed to work .

Maybe it is just luck at getting the correct concentration but ..maybe the

Guess and by golly of the concentration is the "ART" of this .

I was truly leery about trying this ....but I don't see even any harmed /burned

plant tissue ...just enhanced plants and much reduced leaf maladies .....

I guess we shall continue to see ....I would still say...this is "USEFUL ".


I was wondering what was going on with the other reports of tissue dying back etc.
I was thinking the "treatment" might result in a select "chemical pruning "
that kills off weakened (and more sensitive) parts that are so infected by pathogen.

The "Chemical pruning " resulting in a healthy boost and refocus of energy to the surviving healthier tissue ??

All this is so imprecise and even "Folksie " but it sure seems to work for me .

Will be sure to let you know if there is a down side ...so far ..not yet ..

[Carriehelene]

Bill, turns out I'm an idiot who can't read. It wasn't "ultra" I was using, but concentrated. So what do I use for regular Clorox concentrated? Can't find it on bottle.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Carriehelene

Bill, turns out I'm an idiot who can't read. It wasn't "ultra" I was using, but concentrated. So what do I use for regular Clorox concentrated? Can't find it on bottle.

Look at the label of ingredients and if it says it is 8.25 % sodium hypochlorite then that is the stronger or Ultra bleach. At that concentration it requires between 4.5 oz and 5.5 oz of bleach added to a gallon of water.

If the ingredients list sodium hypochlorite as 6 % then it takes between 6.5 oz to 7.5 oz to the gallon of water.

If the solution of bleach you buy is of an even lower concentration of sodium hypochlorite then you will have to adjust for that. If the bleach you buy doesn't list the amount then don't use it. I stay away from no name brands because I have had some bad experiences with them being far too strong or more often far too weak to trust. I always try starting with my lower recommendation when I open a new bottle because I have run across bottles that were stronger than the average and gotten some leaf burn when I shouldn't have. I never use a perfumed or scented formula either because I don't know what it would do to the plants.

Bill

[Carriehelene]

And 8.25% it is. Clorox brand. Took me forever to find that tiny little writing, think I'm getting old lol. Thanks Bill! I'll keep you updated on how it works

[b54red]

Originally Posted by RJGlew

Bill - Your work is very interesting - thank you for sharing. The folks who view themselves as being most ecologically informed refer to bleach as a "toxic bath" - have you had any push back from those folks to your research?

I really don't worry about what they say. I just know it works and has helped me maintain fairly healthy plants beyond the normal life expectancy of tomatoes in this climate. I do almost all of my soil amending organically but found out the hard way that the so called organic solutions for many foliage diseases don't work in these conditions and they are ridiculously expensive in many cases. Since the bleach oxidizes so quickly and leaves the plants so much better off why would I not use it? Copper spray is considered organic or approved for organic use but leaves much more residue and I know that too much of it is harmful. If you use it responsibly and don't breath the fumes or spray yourself in the eyes I don't see what harm it can do. It certainly doesn't seem to bother the insects on the plants either the pests or the friendlies.

I found this solution to some of my gardening problems totally by accident when I was spraying down my house siding to remove mildew and accidentally soaked a climbing rose that was riddled with leaf spot. I thought I had killed it because so many leaves turned brown and fell off but a week later it looked better than it ever had just without all those bad looking leaves so I started experimenting with it on tomato plants which were not responding to the usual fungicides. I damaged a few plants starting off too strong but eventually got it as near right as I could without any chemical experience beyond high school. I did consult a couple of friends of mine who are chemist and they said if I could get the mix strong enough to kill or slow the disease without severely damaging the healthy leaves that it might work.

I also tried it on other plants and found it equally effective. It even took me a while to realize that the best use of it was to use it very early in a disease cycle instead of waiting to use it as a last resort. Waiting too long just means that more leaves are infected and thus more leaves can be lost from the treatment. The first year or so that I used it I only used it as a last resort and so the treatment seemed harsh but when I started using it early, as soon as a disease appeared, then the treatment was not harsh at all. The biggest damage it seems to do is to sprayers if they are not rinsed immediately. I found a back pack sprayer that is rated for using mild bleach and have been using the same sprayer for 7 years or so and it has had hundreds of gallons of the mix run through it in that time. I usually mix up 3 gallons at a time and it takes that much to spray all my plants. With the rainy weather we are having right now I am spraying about twice a week. When it gets dry and the diseases less frequent then I will depend more on the fungicides preventing the diseases but right now I can't keep them on the plants because of the hard rains we have been having every day or two.

Talking about this reminds me it is about daylight now and it rained day before yesterday so I'm going out and spraying everything again this morning.

Of course I will have to douse myself with DEET or lose a lot of blood to the mosquitoes. That part of the spraying I hate.

Bill

[BlackBear]

So for Best Results ???..........



- Only start when necessary as moderate/ reluctant to spray treatment.

- Early intervention ....is most effective .

- and be aware of the correct concentration

- Fine Spray Foliar .... (not in full sun or heat of the Day )

- Gardener/Grower must have keen observation for adjustments to the correct
treatment ....part of the "ART"


- (general precautions as with using any spray solution )



This works for me !

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by b54red

I found this solution to some of my gardening problems totally by accident...

Of course I will have to douse myself with DEET or lose a lot of blood to the mosquitoes. That part of the spraying I hate.

Bill - What a great story about how you found it - thanks again for taking the time to articulate all of this. I'm now ready in case we ever have a humidity problem out here - lol.

I gave up DEET a few years ago after I witnessed it dissolving my fishing rod reel seat. Switched over to Bayer AG's Picaridin which I am still happy with.

rg