Carolyn's 2014 Germination Reports

[GreenSand117]

Carolyn, thanks for the info on Kazachka...I am growing it for the first time this year. I am very excited to try it. Also, this is a little off topic, but can anyone tell me anything about the taste of Zeke Dishman tomato? I am growing it for the first time this season and was curious about what others think.

Thanks, David.

[JLJ_]

Thought I'd go ahead and post this -- haven't given up on the no-shows but the last of these seeds was sown 4/1, so they've all had at least two weeks to appear.

Zolotoe Serdtse 2012 4/4 100%
Joe's Pink Oxheart A 2012 7/9 78%
Sweet Ozark Orange 2013 5/7 71%

Iva's Red Berry 2013 3/9 33%
Medovoe Serdtse B 2013 1/9 11%
Granny's Heart 2012 0/8 0%

Zolotoe was the only one where I didn't plant all seeds. In the first planting, he popped up 4 strong seedlings that have done well. Unless they react poorly to their recent repotting (unlikely) I probably won't start the other seeds until next season.

Joe's germinated well, but only one popped up as a normal seedling. The others were all helmet-heads. Some came out of it on their own, a couple I helped, a couple probably won't make it, but overall it looks as if it will probably make several strong plants. If I was going to plant more of this same seed I'd seriously consider presoaking it.

Sweet Ozark Orange was a little slow to appear, but all but two germinated and seem to be doing well. Interesting in the "germination varies" line, making the point that it's not just 'different people get different results' . . . I contacted Sam and told him that I had put this on my list for you, but would like a pack from him, too, if he had enough seed, as if I started extra plants I knew others in the area who might grow them in slightly different conditions. Planted 10 of the seeds I got from Sam in two plantings, each the same day I planted seeds from your offer. Zero germination in those from Sam (thus far). Same growing conditions, even to the cups being kept next to each other in the tray. Same seed source. Arrived in the mail the same day. Difference in travel path seems the only obvious difference.

Iva's Red Berry seedlings that appeared were all strong, but they were all determined helmet-heads. The seeds were so small I was afraid to try to help them, but after one of the three died, I did all I dared -- drops of moisture; tiny bit of paper towel, wet, with plastic wrap "tent" laid over it; spit. They're still in their helmets, but there did seem to be a little softening and I *think* I'm seeing signs of a little leaf tissue emerging, so I'm hoping for the best. I really hope there's at least one productive plant as I'd love to see this variety.(Pappi's got 6/10 on this and lefolly 7/11, so that's an encouraging indicator of potential.)

Medovoe has just one seedling (thus far) but it was a nice strong seedling that appeared promptly, comparable to Zolotoe. Surprised me, in that event, that others haven't appeared. Pappi's 5/7 was the only other report I've seen on it, so perhaps there's still hope that more will appear.

Granny's Heart -- doormat imitations. I've had Granny from you the past three years -- 2011 seeds in 2012 and 2013, 2012 seed this year. It's never done really well for me (2 seeds in 2012, 3 seeds (eventually) in 2013, 0 thus far this year. MrsJustice is the only report I've seen in the 2014 reports on the 2012 Granny's Heart seeds, but she reported 5/5 germinations in her first planting, so clearly it's not a problem with the whole batch of seed. Each of the previous years one plant did make it to maturity for me, and seeds from those plants germinated fine this year -- but of course they didn't have to travel. I still hope some seedlings from this year's seed from you will show up yet, I will update, if so.

I start seeds in 16oz cups, bottom 1/4 sterilized Miracle Grow potting soil, bring it up to a little over half full with sterilized sphagnum peat (both slightly moist and pressed down gently to firm), shallow dip in top, seed(s) on top of moist peat, covered thinly with perhaps 1/4 inch of DE (Ultrasorb . . . from O'Reilly's Auto supply I believe). Sometimes I put a *very* thin layer of moist peat over the seed before the DE layer -- but usually not, this year. I water lightly from the top, frequently enough to keep top barely moist, with a tiny bit -- few grains -- of Miracle Grow in the water, until germination. After planting they get a square of tulle, secured by a rubber band, over the top of the cup to minimize chances of any bug getting into the cup and bothering the seedlings. (Haven't really seen anything this year, other than a few #%###! gnats in another room -- last year there were some little beetles bothering unprotected seedlings). Don't use heating pad, but germination cups are in warm laundry room. For most other varieties planted, germination was 100% or near that -- but there were a couple of no-shows or slow-shows in the other varieties also.

[carolyn137]

Granny's Heart -- doormat imitations. I've had Granny from you the past three years -- 2011 seeds in 2012 and 2013, 2012 seed this year. It's never done really well for me (2 seeds in 2012, 3 seeds (eventually) in 2013, 0 thus far this year. MrsJustice is the only report I've seen in the 2014 reports on the 2012 Granny's Heart seeds, but she reported 5/5 germinations in her first planting, so clearly it's not a problem with the whole batch of seed. Each of the previous years one plant did make it to maturity for me, and seeds from those plants germinated fine this year -- but of course they didn't have to travel. I still hope some seedlings from this year's seed from you will show up yet, I will update, if so.

%%%%%

I had two seed sources for this variety and still do. One batch of seeds was sent to me by another TV member, as I recall but haven't checked, and one batch was done by one of my folks who does seed production for me.

I don't know which batch was used for each individual person,

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

I really doubt that, except in rare instances, germination differences are because of problems with the seed -- just . . . differences. Granny's heart has gotten one plant to productivity each year and just that provides lots of seed for the future.

Though I thought the fairly dramatic difference with the Sweet Ozark Orange performance really does support the idea that various forms of travel stress may play a role when some seeds don't do what we expect.

[RobinB]

Started seeds on April 8
Heartbreaker - 2013 seed - 3/8 germinated after 8 days.
Two are strong seedlings, and one is a helmet head. I haven't given up on seeing more germination, will update if that occurs. Hopefully, they will get planted out around Memorial Day.

Thanks for the opportunity to try these, Carolyn!

[gill_s]

Eastham Pink (2011) 0/13

Zachary (2013) 0/7. 1 germinated but was a severe 'helmet head'. Following lots of TLC and spit(!) I eventually removed the seed cap but there was no growing point. It eventually withered.

Black Magic (2012) 0/7. 1 germinated as with Zachary. This was also a severe 'helmet head'. The outcome was the same. No seedling!

Verde Claro (2012) 2/7

Dixie Wine (2013) 2/7 with one other which was just a stump

Raspberry Miracle (2013) 2/9

Sweet Ozark Orange (Direct from Sam) 6/6

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gill_s

Eastham Pink (2011) 0/13

Zachary (2013) 0/7. 1 germinated but was a severe 'helmet head'. Following lots of TLC and spit(!) I eventually removed the seed cap but there was no growing point. It eventually withered.

Black Magic (2012) 0/7. 1 germinated as with Zachary. This was also a severe 'helmet head'. The outcome was the same. No seedling!

Verde Claro (2012) 2/7

Dixie Wine (2013) 2/7 with one other which was just a stump

Raspberry Miracle (2013) 2/9

Sweet Ozark Orange (Direct from Sam) 6/6

Gill, others have had low germination for Eastham pink aswell, and I don't know why.

Both Zachary and Black Magic were donated seeds from a commercial seed site owner as you can see if you look at my seed offer, and as I recall others got them up OK.

I was offering the exact same seeds that Sam was offering in his separate seed offer.

Carolyn, who wonders why all the helmet heads with fresh seeds.

[MrsJustice]

[IMG][/IMG]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Granny's Heart -- doormat imitations. I've had Granny from you the past three years -- 2011 seeds in 2012 and 2013, 2012 seed this year. It's never done really well for me (2 seeds in 2012, 3 seeds (eventually) in 2013, 0 thus far this year. MrsJustice is the only report I've seen in the 2014 reports on the 2012 Granny's Heart seeds, but she reported 5/5 germinations in her first planting, so clearly it's not a problem with the whole batch of seed. Each of the previous years one plant did make it to maturity for me, and seeds from those plants germinated fine this year -- but of course they didn't have to travel. I still hope some seedlings from this year's seed from you will show up yet, I will update, if so.

%%%%%

I had two seed sources for this variety and still do. One batch of seeds was sent to me by another TV member, as I recall but haven't checked, and one batch was done by one of my folks who does seed production for me.

I don't know which batch was used for each individual person,

Carolyn

I am so glad you gave me 8 Seeds, because the 2 seeds I planted during the Last New Moon have not Germinated yet. I did pick the best seeds out for the first time. I have moved them to the large green house for the last 3 days, with no signs of germination. I must taste this Granny's Heart this year. I am not taken any chases’ with the last seed.

I trying to add pictures:

[gill_s]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Gill, others have had low germination for Eastham pink aswell, and I don't know why.

Both Zachary and Black Magic were donated seeds from a commercial seed site owner as you can see if you look at my seed offer, and as I recall others got them up OK.

I was offering the exact same seeds that Sam was offering in his separate seed offer.

Carolyn, who wonders why all the helmet heads with fresh seeds.

Carolyn, could the answer be in problems the seeds encounter in transit? I realise that this has been discussed many times but it would help explain the differences in germination.

Could it be possible that during the delivery process the seed packages could become overheated? The seeds would then look unharmed.

I wonder whether any experimental work has been done to find out what conditions lead to seedlings being blind or the growing point being under developed and unable to shed the seed coat.

Gill

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gill_s

Carolyn, could the answer be in problems the seeds encounter in transit? I realise that this has been discussed many times but it would help explain the differences in germination.

Could it be possible that during the delivery process the seed packages could become overheated? The seeds would then look unharmed.

I wonder whether any experimental work has been done to find out what conditions lead to seedlings being blind or the growing point being under developed and unable to shed the seed coat.

Gill

Gill, I send seeds all over the world, not just for my seed offers, but in trade for new ones persons are sending me for seed offers.

Over heated seeds? I doubt it but don't know. Our USPS trucks are climate controlled, eventually what I send outside the US ends up on a plane, except for those I send to Canada, and the holds in planes are climate controlled.

I do know that sowing seeds too deeply can result in low germination. I do know that helmet heads are more often seen with older seeds, but with this past offer the oldest seeds were 2011 seeds for some of them, most being seeds produced just last summer, the 2013 ones, and the summer before, the 2012 ones, and IMO those are not old seeds.

Have you had a chance to compare your results with others who have reported on some of the same ones you have?

I haven't been able to do that b'c of problems with my DSL line, meaning I never know when I'll be able to get online.

Finally, I can think of very few varieties where I had what you and I call blind seedlings, and I've never made a correlation between fresh seeds, old seeds, sowing too deeply, etc.

Carolyn

[gill_s]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Gill, I send seeds all over the world, not just for my seed offers, but in trade for new ones persons are sending me for seed offers.

Over heated seeds? I doubt it but don't know. Our USPS trucks are climate controlled, eventually what I send outside the US ends up on a plane, except for those I send to Canada, and the holds in planes are climate controlled.

I do know that sowing seeds too deeply can result in low germination. I do know that helmet heads are more often seen with older seeds, but with this past offer the oldest seeds were 2011 seeds for some of them, most being seeds produced just last summer, the 2013 ones, and the summer before, the 2012 ones, and IMO those are not old seeds.

Have you had a chance to compare your results with others who have reported on some of the same ones you have?

I haven't been able to do that b'c of problems with my DSL line, meaning I never know when I'll be able to get online.

Finally, I can think of very few varieties where I had what you and I call blind seedlings, and I've never made a correlation between fresh seeds, old seeds, sowing too deeply, etc.

Carolyn

Carolyn

I have just checked other results. dinca has reported 4/5 for Black magic and Pappi 7/7 for Zachary which is much more what would be expected from seeds of that age. There are no other results of Eastham Pink or Verde Claro. I asked the question to try and explain why there are such differing germination results for seeds being sent to such varied areas. My germination method for Black Magic and Zachary was the same as for Sweet Ozark Orange direct from Sam. I got 0% germination from BM and Z, yet 100% from SOO. Did the seeds experience different conditions on their journeys through different postal services?

Gill

[KarenO]

I am still convinced something happened to my much anticipated seeds enroute to me here in Canada. I got 0% germination from all three varieties and I know they were good seeds when they left Carolyn's and I am confident in my usual seed starting practices with excellent success in general

Karen

[dustdevil]

I think each trip through the PO takes some lifeblood out of the seeds. Some of the seeds I get in the mail have a greasy little outline of the seeds impressed on the sides of the little plastic bags...no doubt squeezed by the postal machines. My mailcarrier drives a jeep that isn't climate controlled. I was on one seed site that said they wouldn't warrant their seeds due to possible xraying by the PO! Also, it is imperative that the seeds are kept moist for good germination.

Originally Posted by gill_s

Carolyn, could the answer be in problems the seeds encounter in transit? I realise that this has been discussed many times but it would help explain the differences in germination.

Could it be possible that during the delivery process the seed packages could become overheated? The seeds would then look unharmed.

I wonder whether any experimental work has been done to find out what conditions lead to seedlings being blind or the growing point being under developed and unable to shed the seed coat.

Gill

[Mark0820]

Loka (2013) 3/5 germinated

Istra (2013) 4/7

Buddy Runyon (2013) 0/7

Maria Amazilitei Giant Red (2013) 0/6

Black Magic (2012) 3/6

Dutka's Pink (2011) 0/9

[DonnaMarieNJ]

Absinthe 2013 3/6

Don's Double Delight 2012 6/6 (!)

Malinovoe Chudo 2013 5/9, BUT three died before I had a chance to pot up

Rozovyi Izumnyi 2012 7/11

Sakharnyi Pudovichok 2013 3/6

Serendipity 2012 3/7

Overall, I'm happy with the results.

I hope I spelled everything correctly