Harvest time for tomatoes then should ideally occur when..."

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

I guess this conversation is another example that confirmation bias is powerful, and people's minds are rarely changed and operate on the level of personal belief, regardless of quality of challenges to their beliefs.

Gardeneer, since you agree with bower, what do you think of the argument presented by bower? Does the fact that there is an observed and measured difference in fruit composition at least make you reconsider that perhaps more might be going on in a ripening tomato than what your fruit-size-based argument will allow? Since you did not care for studies I posted in the past about continued fluid influx into a truss even when fruits have already advanced past color break or by studies showing that people can identify fruits picked early vs. at table ripe (even when the fruits are both ripened in identical conditions), does this present enough of a challenge to make you rethink your certainty that there is no interaction at all between fruit and plant after mature green is reached?

gorbelly,
I agreed with bower , on the post that I just quoted from him not about the technicality of the subject.
And on the subject , I have expressed my opinions and have nothing more to say.

[SharonRossy]

Just for the record, I have picking tomatoes that I hope are mature green because of squirrels and I'd rather have them rot in my house than have the squirrels take a bite and leave them on the ground. This is the first year that I've taken several in that haven't really had the color break but are definitely a mature green. Just a conversation guys, just opinions and information.

[greenthumbomaha]

I too enjoy the conversation, but I ultimately look to the science to understand the methodology and conclusions of controlled scientific experiments.

So, here are my observations, which are casual chuckles and not based on science and can be taken as fact no further than the nose on my face.

It has been a very unusual year in my garden(s). I have never had trouble with critters pecking at tomatoes in my backyard. Barely one in three tomatoes was salvageable. Ay my partner's acreage (the one with the upside down early blight from a prior thread) , the tomatoes were splitting and bugs were getting in. This is all coming together as fruit started ripening within the past week. So I, like others, picked when not lusciously fully ripe.

For fresh eating the flavor is good, but not like an August tomato should taste. In fact I haven't lusted after the tomato salads with balsamic vinegar that says summer. I've just peeled off a slice for tasting before saving seeds. Yes it is that sad, to me.

On a positive note, I visited my growing partner as his family was making sauce. I had picked a few trays partially green knowing their work schedule would prohibit the saucing until the weekend. By then the tomatoes were a gorgeous deep red shade, but a quick taste left me underwhelmed. By the time they sliced and roasted the tomatoes with homegrown garlic, oregano basil peppers it was the best sauce I've ever tasted.

The exception was Sungold. That's still da bomb no matter which stage it was picked.

- Lisa

[NarnianGarden]

It's wonderful to know that any tomato roasted w/ olive oil and garlic (or even without) will taste great. I think that's the whole idea of growing them - so many ways to enjoy them.
On the other hand, I think even bland tomatoes taste good in a salad, if drenched w/ balsamico and really strong olive oil...

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

It's wonderful to know that any tomato roasted w/ olive oil and garlic (or even without) will taste great. I think that's the whole idea of growing them - so many ways to enjoy them.
On the other hand, I think even bland tomatoes taste good in a salad, if drenched w/ balsamico and really strong olive oil...

I agree. I seldom eat fresh tomato, as it comes from the garden. Dash of salt, drops of vinegar and olive oil will do. And in cooking , you can modify and improve the taste with garlic, onions, herbs and spices. I can make a decent tomato sauce from just about any tomato.

[bower]

I really enjoyed this discussion re: thinking about what works best for me. I'm not that good at judging ripeness on the vine. Tomatoes look ready to me until I pick em, then I realize, well this is still a bit firm and could ripen up to optimum by sitting for a day.

But while reading this thread I let some hang longer than I would, and picked off the vine and ate immediately. Taste intensity was definitely there. But I felt that the texture suffered from the extra hang time... it was just beyond the level of firmness that I find optimum.
I think I do better for all values by picking when it looks ripe to me, and then letting it go the very last bit of ripening indoors where the temperatures are less extreme. Then I get the intensity but also the best texture, IMO.
And depending on the variety they can sit for quite a while without loss of quality, either firmness/texture or taste. But if I let them go to "table ripe" on the vine I would have to eat immediately, afaict.
Some types mind you really need to be eaten soon after picked and as soon as they reach full ripeness - quite a few early reds in that category IMO. And PBTD of course.

Sharon, do put your mature greens in a paper bag. I think it makes a big taste difference, not only they get the benefit of their own ethylene released, but it will decrease water loss by transpiration or respiration or both. Speaking from experience at end of season, a mature green will take much longer to ripen if left in the open. And they may start to shrivel.
I've also ripened immature green fruit and the off taste is pretty gross, they aren't fit for cooking either. But I've managed to get really immature greens to ripe color in a bag and mature a few seeds... they're still good for that. Left in the open though... they'll dry up more likely.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by bower

I've also ripened immature green fruit and the off taste is pretty gross, they aren't fit for cooking either.

They make a passable spiced tomato jam which is a great condiment for things like turkey or chicken sandwiches and is an amazing addition to a cheese plate. With jams, you can always add sugar and acid to make up for the lack of them in the tomato.

But pickling or chutney while they're still green is a better bet with immature greens.

[efisakov]

I pick mostly ripe fruits. If rain is in the forecast I pick starting to ripe as well to avoid tomato cracking.
At the end of the season I pick all full size green fruits that could ripen. I noticed that pink and yellow/orange varieties do ripen better than black once. Just an observation. Black varieties do ripen, only more of them have gone bad/rotten than my yellows and pinks. I would say about 20%. I did not bag them, they lay on a flat surface at about 65 degrees Fahrenheit. I have usually 20-30 pounds of greenies. They ripen throughout November.

One tomato that does the best in ripening like that and keeping its taste is Claude Brown’s Y. Giant. I do not care if it starts late fruiting, fine. This is my best late tomato. Pinks: Brandywine Sudduth and Cowlick Brandywine both great too.

I grew up eating pears ripe from the tree. You would be 50 feet away from pear tree once they start ripening and aroma would be so good, you will be choking on your saliva. I rarely eat pears now days. The once we purchase from the store are just junk. Just like tomatoes they would ripen but NO taste can compare. Same thing with peaches. I used to touch them to see if they soft while they still on the tree. The best would be peach that I can pill off the skin. And as I pill it the juices would be running along my arm. mmm You can not get that from the store even if it seats on the countertop in a brown bag.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by efisakov

I pick mostly ripe fruits. If rain is in the forecast I pick starting to ripe as well to avoid tomato cracking.
At the end of the season I pick all full size green fruits that could ripen. I noticed that pink and yellow/orange varieties do ripen better than black once. Just an observation. Black varieties do ripen, only more of them have gone bad/rotten than my yellows and pinks. I would say about 20%. I did not bag them, they lay on a flat surface at about 65 degrees Fahrenheit. I have usually 20-30 pounds of greenies. They ripen throughout November.

One tomato that does the best in ripening like that and keeping its taste is Claude Brown’s Y. Giant. I do not care if it starts late fruiting, fine. This is my best late tomato. Pinks: Brandywine Sudduth and Cowlick Brandywine both great too.

I grew up eating pears ripe from the tree. You would be 50 feet away from pear tree once they start ripening and aroma would be so good, you will be choking on your saliva. I rarely eat pears now days. The once we purchase from the store are just junk. Just like tomatoes they would ripen but NO taste can compare. Same thing with peaches. I used to touch them to see if they soft while they still on the tree. The best would be peach that I can pill off the skin. And as I pill it the juices would be running along my arm. mmm You can not get that from the store even if it seats on the countertop in a brown bag.

My same observations, and tactics with pears and peaches.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

My same observations, and tactics with pears and peaches.

So true about store peaches and pears. Sadly peaches don't grow here and pears, rarely. I had a treat last year, a ripe pear from a friend's tree.
The only peach in my house is bought canned in syrup. The canned pears are not even passable either.

One thing I read about tomatoes, the green fruit are more easily damaged by cold! This is the cause of rotting after you pick them to ripen.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the temperatures come fall, for that 55 F / 12.5 C cutoff below which ripening doesn't happen!
It's not just when to pick, but when to salvage here!

[NarnianGarden]

Oh. I'd love to taste a tree-ripened pear... 'and a partridge in a pear tree' ..
Sadly, no pear trees around me that would be available to general public...
Peaches... I can only imagine. The ones from grocery store are probably loaded with pesticides, that's why I get my mouth all itchy after eating them ..

But, thank God, I can however grow tomatoes - large and small. That is something to shout about...

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by bower

So true about store peaches and pears. Sadly peaches don't grow here and pears, rarely. I had a treat last year, a ripe pear from a friend's tree.
The only peach in my house is bought canned in syrup. The canned pears are not even passable either.

One thing I read about tomatoes, the green fruit are more easily damaged by cold! This is the cause of rotting after you pick them to ripen.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the temperatures come fall, for that 55 F / 12.5 C cutoff below which ripening doesn't happen!
It's not just when to pick, but when to salvage here!

A tree ripened pear, or peach has to be eaten outside or in the bathtub.

[bower]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Oh. I'd love to taste a tree-ripened pear... 'and a partridge in a pear tree' ..
Sadly, no pear trees around me that would be available to general public...
Peaches... I can only imagine. The ones from grocery store are probably loaded with pesticides, that's why I get my mouth all itchy after eating them ..

But, thank God, I can however grow tomatoes - large and small. That is something to shout about...

Plant a pear tree, they will come. Even if you have no pears ever.
The grouse here are natural pruners for fruit trees... they sit on top of the branch and bite off all the buds on the upper surface, so the buds that are left are growing downwards, and is the best way to prune in the north where there's heavy snow load.
I never see a grouse in a fruit tree without thinking how tasty that bird should be!

[efisakov]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Oh. I'd love to taste a tree-ripened pear... 'and a partridge in a pear tree' ..
Sadly, no pear trees around me that would be available to general public...
Peaches... I can only imagine. The ones from grocery store are probably loaded with pesticides, that's why I get my mouth all itchy after eating them ..

But, thank God, I can however grow tomatoes - large and small. That is something to shout about...

Just recently I read about some chemical used to keep apples crispy. I was wondering why I started having allergic reaction to apples few years ago. Same throat irritation even to organic grown. Washing in soap and even pilling was not helping. At present time the only apples I can eat are from Walmart store and name of company distributing is "Rice". Other they use something different or nothing at all.
Backed apples were fine, no irritation.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

A tree ripened pear, or peach has to be eaten outside or in the bathtub.

And mangoes too! Bath fruit. Good to the last elbow drop.