Need recommendation for a tomato in the south.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Well, I will be growing several varieties that are said to set fruits in the high heat/humidity of deep sourth and they are :
--Pruden's Purple
-- Creole
-- Super Sioux
-- IS PL
-- Big Beef
In addition to those I will grow 25 other varieties as well.
Come July/August I should be able to evaluate them. And I will review them when the time comes.

Out of 25 varieties you will probably find a few that do surprisingly well in the heat. Most varieties do fine until the temps get well above 90 and the nights heat up. That is why I try to put out the ones that I know have a history of poor fruit setting in the heat in my earliest planting. Usually that is adequate to get a decent harvest from them but sometimes the extreme heat can hit early and slow them down. One that is constantly being mentioned as poor in the really hot weather is Brandywine Sudduth's; but I usually get from 20 to 30 off each plant most years but not all years. The same thing seems to happen to almost all varieties and for the life of me I can't figure out what the difference is some years. Often it is obvious like too much rain, too much humidity too early, or late spring cold snaps. But there are those years when the weather patterns from year to year will be very similar and yet some varieties perform totally different from year to year. That is one of the reasons I like to have a good selection of different varieties every year no matter how tempting it is to concentrate on only a couple that usually outperform. I'll never forget the year that I set out 50 Celebrity tomatoes because they had done the best for me three years in a row and I only got a few tomatoes the whole season off of them. I only planted 10 other plants of different varieties yet got twice as many tomatoes from them. I learned a hard lesson and basically lost a whole season like when I tried going totally organic for two years and found out how ineffective most of the totally organic solutions to disease and pest control on tomatoes could be down here.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

Thanks, Bill
On the heat , humidity ,and rain can't do anything to avoid them .
What I can (me thinks) is to be diligent on pruning and spraying with various fungicide. I should remind myself to spray after each rain.
Now I hope I won't have any soil borne diseases. It is going to be a chalenging first year down here.

[Dark Rumor]

Originally Posted by b54red

Since I have been growing tomatoes through the summer for quite a few years and have had some success with it and shown that I have had some consistency I thought it was worth passing on.



Bill

I appreciate you sharing information in this forum. I want to have tomatoes to eat from August to December so I am going to do multiple plantings with some of the varieties you have mentioned. I am sure it will be a learning process for me, but growing tomatoes is what I like to do.

[jtjmartin]

I'm not as far south (Virginia) as most on the thread, but we had a very hot summer last year. I listened to the kind advice offered and did a deep mulch for my tomato plants for the first time. A neighbor had bags and bags of pine needles so I used them.

I was pleasantly surprised that my weeding time dropped to almost zero and I only had to water a couple times. My black tomatoes - like Black Krim - produced all summer. It was the first BWR tomato that I ever grew and I loved it. (I was somewhat worried that my wife wouldn't like a dark tomato sauce but the taste made up for not looking "traditional.")

I also learned that the prettiest (bug & disease free) tomatoes happen earlier so I'm going to try some walls of water this year. I'll also - for the first time - stagger my planting dates (though not as much as those further south can do.)

Disease was not a big issue yet. But I know I will have extra seedlings so I'm going to germinate some root stock and try to graft this year! If it works - great; if not, (1) I've learned what not to do, and (2) I'm only out some rootstock seed. It would make sense that a more vigorous rootstock may help heat resistant tomatoes bear more.

Last year I tried a few single stem tomato plants trained on twine and really liked it. This year, I plan on increasing the number and also experimenting with the bleach spray. Life is learning!

[Dark Rumor]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

Disease was not a big issue yet. But I know I will have extra seedlings so I'm going to germinate some root stock and try to graft this year! If it works - great; if not, (1) I've learned what not to do, and (2) I'm only out some rootstock seed. It would make sense that a more vigorous rootstock may help heat resistant tomatoes bear more.

Bill

How much do you think your root stock contributes to the success of your tomatoes you produce in August?

That was a keen observation by JT, dang-it now I have to consider trying to learn to graft.

[ScottinAtlanta]

All I can say is that if Bill says it, it is likely to be true. I have profited enormously by listening closely to Bill in this difficult climate of the Deep South, and thank him for his posts.

[schill93]

I believe everyone reading this thread thought frankcar1965 was way out of line and I commend Bill for keeping his cool. There is a BIG difference with sharing a different opinion, and the manner in which he spoke to Bill.

Funny how someone so rude and disrespectful can be so sensitive to the least comment from someone else.

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm sure Bill has helped all of us. I know his ideas have certainly helped me. I also hope we don't run Frank off. I want everyone to get along, forgive and forget

One thing about university, state, and ag dept advice - they are talking about standard commercial practices in the area, as in 40 acres at a time. When they say something can't be done, they are telling farmers that they will lose money by trying it on a large scale, not that it is impossible to accomplish.

And that's not even to say that Bill's ideas and methods would not be profitable. I think they certainly would be on at least a micro-farm level. That's exactly the type of idea that any good ag scientist would want to pursue with diligent research, to see if it can be applied to improve standard practices. I think Bama, Auburn, and the other local university research facilities would take interest in what Bill has accomplished.

[BigVanVader]

Same here. Bill has helped me tremendously. There is no substitute for experience. No amount of book learning can teach you about real life application. Educated idiots as I like to call them. My sister was married to one.

Look at what Delerium and others proved could be done with grafting here on TV. I have been to several grafting workshops and none of them can believe what I tell them. You can never learn anything if you don't try and I don't tolerate closed minded or rude very people well, but I digress.

Here is a variety trialed in the Bahamas that set the same in high temps as in milder temps just to show it isn't some unheard of impossibility.

https://www.bahamas.gov.bs/wps/wcm/c...8-18ae53a1f168

[jtjmartin]

I did not mean to be so harsh, but I have learned so much from Bill, BigVV, Cole_Robbie and so many others. And, their advice worked! I look up to these people for sharing their time, passion, and greater experience - for free! - with me.

Adding to what Cole_Robbie said, I would guess that a lot of the research done by the Universities are probably on the commonly grown, traditionally farmed, mass-produced tomatoes. That's why you have to read the study.

What Bill, and others, recommend are likely not covered in this research.

No hard feelings here - I hope Frank comes back - his earlier posts were wonderful.

Jeff

[BigVanVader]

One thing not mentioned is how useful artificial selection is for growers like us compared to typical practices used by commercial growers. Certain varieties express genes/traits for heat set and that can be exploited by careful selection over the years. When I trade seeds now I always try to get them from a similar climate because I have noticed they fare better. Anecdotal? Yes, but it makes sense so I stick to it. For me getting seeds from Bill this year that are likely a decade or more adapted to his specific climate, which is very similar to mine, is something you can't put a price on.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Dark Rumor

Bill

How much do you think your root stock contributes to the success of your tomatoes you produce in August?

That was a keen observation by JT, dang-it now I have to consider trying to learn to graft.

I think it is invaluable because of the extent of the fusarium infestation in my garden. Without grafting half my plants would be dead before they ever made a single ripe fruit and half the ones left would be sick or dying. That is how bad my soil born problems had gotten in the ten or so years before I started grafting. I have some nematode problems but not too much since I really worked on the organic content of my beds and the grafting helps with that too. I do still have some sandy patches especially at the southwestern ends of my beds and that is where I still have some nematode problems.

Cutting back on the sickness that many of my plants had to endure from soil born problems greatly increased the production; but I really believe that most varieties will produce just as much without grafting if they don't have to fight the soil born problems. Not all varieties thrive when grafted to some root stock and some do really terrible. Some root stock seem to give you bigger healthier more vegetative plants with somewhat larger fruit but the trade off is they tend to be much later in producing from plant out date and they tend to make fewer fruits. The result of some combinations is smaller fruit and smaller plants but as long as they are healthy I'm fine with that. Some graft combinations do tend to pump up the amount of production although those greater numbers usually mean a slightly smaller average fruit size.

With the root stock RST-04-106-T that makes up most of my grafting now I do find greater production but slightly smaller fruit. I am not getting as many of those big two pounders which is fine with me; but I am getting far more fruit. When I used Multifort and Estamino I got larger plants and some larger fruit but usually less fruit per plant. But with any of these things there were exceptions. Delicious when grafted on either of those root stocks usually made both more and larger than when RST type was used and there were a few others like that.

One determining factor besides production was the less vegetative growth when using RST-04-106-T than either Multifort or Estamino. This makes pruning and spraying much easier for me along with less frequent tying up and lowering. Other determining factors were better more abundant fruit set and more scions did well with this root stock for me.

I don't really have much choice about grafting if I want to enjoy heirloom tomatoes with any regularity because of my soil problems; but if I didn't have to I surely wouldn't do all that work grafting. Even if you got some marginal benefit in production or size that is not enough reason to graft unless you have very limited space.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

I trust Bill as an authority in growing tomatoes. It is not just for growing tomatoes for over 40 years but also for his experiments and methodology , trying and trying many ways.
So this year that I have moved to deep south, I find his suggestion very helpful to me. I trust him more than somebody in my county extension office.

[Nightshade]

"Carla in Sacramento" spent years trying to eradicate the erroneous belief that there are no tomatoes capable of setting fruit in hot weather. This is just one of many discussions on the subject over the years:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...her-top-plants

[parah]

Originally Posted by b54red

Every time I figured something out or learned it the hard way the thought always occurred to me how much it would have helped to have known that years ago so I try to let other dedicated growers know what I have found out.
Bill

I learned most of what I know about growing tomatoes because of all the generous ideas that you share. Some of your recommendations have become my favorites:
-Red barn
-Prudens
-Couilles de Taureau
-Andrew Rahart's...

My garden has improved a LOT because of your tips:
-Cypress Mulch
-Bleach spray
-Copper spray
-Texas Tomato Food
-SP2 pressurized sprayer

Thank you.

It might be time to put some of the best stuff in a book?