Diatomaceous Earth as a seed starting medium

[b54red]

Remember you need to start fertilizing very soon after the first seeds come up. I have now started using water with TTF already added to it for all my watering even the first time wetting the DE. It doesn't seem to have affected my germination at all and my plants seem to be starting off a little healthier with the frequent fertilizing even if it is a bit dilute.

Remember not to leave your DE cells in a water tray during the first couple of weeks or it will encourage damping off. I always set mine in the watering trays until the surface shows they are wet and then remove until they start drying out again then repeat.

Bill

[creister]

Bill,

Do you start bush beans in de?

[Father'sDaughter]

Anyone go to Autozone for Ultrasorb lately? I went yesterday and they no longer have the product and the old item number (8188) no longer comes up in their computer system.

They had one bag left of their new product -- Floor-Dry which, according to the bag is 100% DE. The manufacturer is EP Minerals out of Reno NV. Here's their page on the product - https://epminerals.com/products/floor-dry

I'm guessing it's comparable to the Ultrasorb but wondering if anyone's tried it yet.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Anyone go to Autozone for Ultrasorb lately? I went yesterday and they no longer have the product and the old item number (8188) no longer comes up in their computer system.

They had one bag left of their new product -- Floor-Dry which, according to the bag is 100% DE. The manufacturer is EP Minerals out of Reno NV. Here's their page on the product - https://epminerals.com/products/floor-dry

I'm guessing it's comparable to the Ultrasorb but wondering if anyone's tried it yet.

Since EP Minerals purchased Moltan they have changed some of the product names, I don't believe they kept the UltraSorb product name. I haven't been to Autozone lately so I haven't seen what they have now.
Is Floor Dry the same fine aggregate as the old Ultrasorb or did they go with the larger aggregate? I'll have to go there myself but just wondering if you noticed.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by RayR

Since EP Minerals purchased Moltan they have changed some of the product names, I don't believe they kept the UltraSorb product name. I haven't been to Autozone lately so I haven't seen what they have now.
Is Floor Dry the same fine aggregate as the old Ultrasorb or did they go with the larger aggregate? I'll have to go there myself but just wondering if you noticed.

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Moltan had been bought.

I just opened the bag and it looks identical to the old Ultrasorb. It was $6 and change for a 15 pound bag.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Moltan had been bought.

I just opened the bag and it looks identical to the old Ultrasorb. It was $6 and change for a 15 pound bag.

OK, that's good to know if anyone needs the Fine Granulation. They still list it as Ultrasorb on their web site.

NAPA has Floor Dry (Part# NFD 8822), in their description it says it's Coarse Granulation, which I remember it was in the past.
EP kept the Optisorb product which is the Coarsest Granulation. Available from O'Reilly's Auto Parts and Grainger.

[Ricky Shaw]

Would you add DE to container mixes to increase moisture retention, or would vermiculite be better?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

Would you add DE to container mixes to increase moisture retention, or would vermiculite be better?

I do add DE to container mixes for a number of reasons, I know others here that have been doing it for longer than I have. I haven't messed with vermiculite that much to make a educated comparison of water retention but both are very absorbent materials although their structure is very different.
I do think DE absorbs water faster but even gives it up faster than vermiculite. I think that is related to DE's higher Air Filled Porosity.
Other than that, both are in a PH range of 6.0-7.0, both have a medium CEC for nutrient buffering. DE does add some soluble silica from its SiO2 which is missing from many container mixes. Vermiculite has very inert aluminium-iron-magnesium silicates.

[Ricky Shaw]

Thank you Ray, very informative.

[zeroma]

Originally Posted by Diriel

I would be tempted to "amend" the DE with some some select organics. I would go approximately 50-60% DE, then I would very selectively add in "organic materials". I also use a self watering -- bottom watering system. So far it *SEEMS* to be doing well, the test is in the early stage however.

Oh, the part number on that Napa is #8822 ask me how i know that hahah. Then again I also have a couple 4.5lb bags of the Blue Ribbon D.E. Kitty Litter from the local Dollar Tree store. Seems to be pretty much the same, functionally at least.

Gary

I know this is an old post but thought I'd bump it up. Isn't the point of using DE, an inorganic substance, to keep organic substances away? It is the organic substances that cause/harbor the damping off virus? Adding amendments would totally defeat this.

I am looking for more of the onion seed starting photos I know are here somewhere so I had to start at the beginning of this very long thread. But thought this would help remind some of us what to do and not do with DE seed starting.

zeroma

[RayR]

Originally Posted by zeroma

I know this is an old post but thought I'd bump it up. Isn't the point of using DE, an inorganic substance, to keep organic substances away? It is the organic substances that cause/harbor the damping off virus? Adding amendments would totally defeat this.

I am looking for more of the onion seed starting photos I know are here somewhere so I had to start at the beginning of this very long thread. But thought this would help remind some of us what to do and not do with DE seed starting.

zeroma

Zeroma, I think there is some misunderstanding as to damping off pathogens. It's not the medium whether organic, inorganic or a combination that promotes damping off of seedlings. Damping off pathogens cause damping off, they are not any kind of virus, they are oomycetes pathogens also called water molds because they thrive in overly wet conditions.
People who grow in other inorganic substrates like rock wool or clay pebbles like Hydroton in hydroponic systems can get damping off of seedlings or root rot on mature plants caused by the same pathogens.
Bill was the first person to notice that seedlings grown in DE were far less susceptible to damping off as long as the medium was not kept too wet. Now if there is something about DE itself that inhibits these pathogens then it is what it is, a mystery at this time.

[imp]

I just read this whole thread today- had to take some breaks, LOL!!

Sounds very good, and I am especially intrigued by the roots being so much more massive in DE. I shall have to try this.

[Rosedude]

I tried the DE this month. Autozone sells it in 15# bags labeled FloorDry but it came up on the cash register receipt as Ultrasorb. I sprouted some tomatoes in it already.

[Rockporter]

I am bumping this thread as well. I told hubby I needed some Ultrasorb from Autozone and wanted to be sure I was calling it the right thing. Yep. Now to see what they have at my local store. I want to do a seed comparison using DE and Jiffy seed starting mix.

[Rockporter]

I have just read about half of all the posts on this thread and had forgotten how involved I was in it, lol.

I think what I am going to do is fill a sand pail with about 1/2 of my planting mix, then about 1/4 jiffy seed starting mix and then 1/4 layer of ultrasorb on top to start my seeds. If things go right I won't have to repot them before I plant them out and should get a good amount of roots growing on the seedlings.

My planting mix is a mels mix with peat, vermiculite, and various composts. I should have good wicking up to the ultrasorb for seed germination.

I'll let you all know how that goes for me.