Dense Planting Illustrated - WARNING - Pic Heavy! Latest video 3/17 - transplanting

[cdg]

Hello , It seems most folks use 4 weeks as the time frame for seperating these dense planted seedlings. Is this how long it usually takes for the first set of true leaves to form? I planted on Feb 12th , all were up by the 16th and moved under fluorescent light. I was just wondering if they could survive seperating and potting up at this stage ( 2 weeks).
Thanks
CDG

Also , anyone have any experience with the Vintage Wine tomato??

[nctomatoman]

It depends upon formation of the true leaves - I grow them cool under lights in my garage, so find that 4 weeks between seeding and starting to transplant works out about right - though I suspect you could move younger seedlings to 4 inch pots.

Vinage Wine - pretty, productive, and one of the few spitters I've grown...yuck!

[GrowSeeds]

Craig I can not find the plug flats like the ones you are using around here. I have the six cells that make a flat of 72 cells - yours look like 50 cells. What do you think about these cell flats - should I use about 10 to 15 seeds per cell (as they look to be not as big as your cells). You advice welcome.
John

[nctomatoman]

Just answered your PM, but will also post here that I order the 50 cell plug flats from Johnny's, about 11.00 for a box of 5.

[Miss_Mudcat]

John, I've used 72-cell flats and put about 8-10 seeds in each cell... works fine. I have used larger containers to start seeds, and from my experience, I see that the tomato seedlings grow larger and faster if they have more space. This may NOT be desirable, especially if you are working with a large number of plants and a timetable.

Lisa

[GrowSeeds]

Thanks Lisa
And thanks about the grow rates in different spaces tip.
John

[patty_b]

Craig, have you ever pinched two young seedlings together when transplanting so they might grow together, hoping to create a thicker stonger stem?? I asked because I just transplanted a few that way. I think they might have been piggybacking.....they were so close together, I just left them as one! Patty

[sirtanon]

I transplanted a couple of 'conjoined' tomato seedlings a month or so ago, when I moved them out to the raised beds. Had a couple that were so close together, I could either risk damaging too many roots, or just leave the two intertwined and hope for a super-healthy mutant

[Earl]

Craig, if I shake my head while looking at those flats all the plants start dancing and I think I can hear them giggling. :-)

I tried the Craig Method with some leek, green onion and shallot seeds and they seem to be doing very well. I'll let you know how they turn out.

[housemouse]

I am being brave today, and putting my new little seedlings out in the sun for an hour. It is 50 degrees outside.

I have only one set of lights, and have way too many seedlings, tomatoes, peppers, and various annual and perennial seedlings.

Our last average frost date here is supposed to be May 15th or so. I figure I will transplant the seedlings about April 15th, and then do the "flat dance" to and from my sunny south facing deck.

Any further advice is so welcome!

[GardeningGrrl]

I've also been using the many-seeds-per-cell method for several years, and it works like a charm. I started my seeds on March 15th, and many of them already have their first set of true leaves, albeit tiny ones. I'm going to start potting up, because I too have noticed that the ones that have more space early on seem happier - haven't been able to do that in the past because of space limitations and they've all turned out great - but this year I'm cutting back so I figure I'll give them some more room.

Anyway, just wanted to reiterate that seedlings are VERY STURDY! I've yanked those seedlings apart (not really, but sometimes they're very entwined), and yes, basically 99.9% survive. Heck, the ones I cull wind up still looking green a week later, even as they sit in the trash. So for efficiency, plant close and tug apart with no fear!

And I too tried Vintage Wine last year - as Craig noted, beautiful, but blech, one of the very very few I've spit out. That and Plum Lemon. Ptooey.

[FarmerCathy]

Very informative thread. I'm planning on selling tomato seedlings among other things next year and this method most certainly will help with space efficiency. I do have one question though. Where do you put your seedlings you have transferred into 4" pots? Do you think it would work to put them in a cold frame set-up or do they still need the heat pads until time for sale? If it helps this is what I'm thinking of using for a cold frame in a sunny location. http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/in...productid=1030 Thanks.

I think I'm going to love this forum.

Cathy

[Suze]

Originally Posted by FarmerCathy

Very informative thread. I'm planning on selling tomato seedlings among other things next year and this method most certainly will help with space efficiency. I do have one question though. Where do you put your seedlings you have transferred into 4" pots? Do you think it would work to put them in a cold frame set-up or do they still need the heat pads until time for sale?

Cathy, I'm obviously not Craig, but heat mats are mainly used for germination, and leaving germinated seedlings on them overly long would tend to make them lanky.

From what I can gather, he germinates on heat mats (when he bothers to use them for tomatoes) inside, then once they are germinated, he puts them in his garage under lights. He also takes them outside a little bit during this stage to start hardening off some. Maybe just an hour or two those first couple of days, depending on the weather, with the rest of the time under lights. Then, when they get their first true leaves, he starts the potting up of individual seedlings to four inch pots. After he does that, he tends to put them back under shop lights in the garage for 2-3 days so that they can recover from the stress of potting up. Lastly, they go back outside to complete the growing on/hardening off.

Also, he has a sort of rotation going, where not all the seeds are started at once.

As for success with a cold frame setup, I guess you'd need to monitor the temps (by keeping a thermometer inside) to make sure it stays in in a good range for seedling growing, and close/vent as necessary.

If you germinate in the cold frame, or get the seedlings out into it as soon as they germinate, there should be little/no need for hardening off from the sun. The wind, however, might be a different matter.

Hard to say if you'd even need a cold frame in your climate if using the same method, with you being in California and all. I guess it depends on your avg temps at the time you'd normally start seedlings there.

Another option is to have a multishelved metal rack(s), and just wheel seedlings into a garage at night if needed. That's what I do after I am done with the lights, but then, I only grow a few hundred seedlings a year, not a few thousand.

Hope that makes sense.

[FarmerCathy]

Thanks Suze,

Yes, and thanks for reminding about heat mats only for germination. I learned that last year and have quickly forgot. That's what happens I guess when you have kids.
I'm so excited to try this. Only going to plant about 400 tomatoes, but this will help since space is limited. How many, I don't know if this was talked about, but tomatoes seeds per cell? I think I missed that. Will try to read back through if I can, but if someone can pop in and tell that would be cool too.

Thanks, Cathy

[Suze]

Originally Posted by FarmerCathy

I don't know if this was talked about, but tomatoes seeds per cell? I think I missed that. Will try to read back through if I can, but if someone can pop in and tell that would be cool too.

Cathy, Craig sows up to 35 seeds per cell. He is using the 50 cell plug flats from Johnny's Selected Seeds (currently $11.40 for a five pack).