Mycorrhizae..can I get more bang for my $$$?

[z_willus_d]

Hi Ray, nice assortment of Trich you've mentioned there. I wonder if there merit to deep soaking the ground where the plant will be set out before transplanting out in the hopes that the trich might kill-off any F. or V. in the bed. Then when setting out (or before), inoculate the roots of the plants too.

I'd still like to find a simple, cheap method to culture and disseminate the Trichoderma, since even the relatively cheap tablets of Biotamax only go so far.
-naysen

[greentiger87]

No, compared to innoculating your transplants, soaking the ground with with Trichoderma spores is a waste of time and effort. There's a certain psychological satisfaction to "disinfecting" the soil before you ever plant anything - but in this case, it's not rational. The literature consistently shows that introducing the spores to the root system just before transplant is the most effective (actually, I can't think of any good examples where soil soaking with a wilt control organisms had anything but marginal success).

Fusarium and Verticillium spores are incredibly persistent and hardy. They are rarely parasitized by other fungi under normal conditions.

Another possibility to look into is "anaerobic soil disinfestation". The active organisms in this process are most likely Clostridium species and other organic acid producers.

[greentiger87]

Originally Posted by Randall

Here's a good reference for what RayR stated:

http://www.invam.caf.wvu.edu/methods...zae/hyphae.htm

After exploring that incredibly interesting website again, and especially reading how they deal with mycorrhizal spores.. I'm finding it hard to believe that any of the products commonly sold have significant viability - at least for the mycorrhizal fungi. I had no idea they were so delicate.

[z_willus_d]

GT87, the ASD method does seem promising. I will actively investigate it. A TV member suggested something different (but to my eyes somehow similar) for dealing with F. (also a slightly modified set of steps for V.) It's documented here:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....3&postcount=22

Thanks.
-naysen

[RayR]

Originally Posted by greentiger87

No, compared to innoculating your transplants, soaking the ground with with Trichoderma spores is a waste of time and effort. There's a certain psychological satisfaction to "disinfecting" the soil before you ever plant anything - but in this case, it's not rational. The literature consistently shows that introducing the spores to the root system just before transplant is the most effective (actually, I can't think of any good examples where soil soaking with a wilt control organisms had anything but marginal success).

Fusarium and Verticillium spores are incredibly persistent and hardy. They are rarely parasitized by other fungi under normal conditions.

Another possibility to look into is "anaerobic soil disinfestation". The active organisms in this process are most likely Clostridium species and other organic acid producers.

I've read the same thing, even though Trichoderma are free living, they do their best work at pathogen suppression in the rhizosphere. Like other beneficial soil organisms they provide multiple benefits to the plant. Other than mycoparisitism of pathogenic fungi, some Trichoderma will penetrate the root cells and induce system resistance in the plant, they produce the plant growth hormone indole acetic acid (IAA), and there appears to be synergy with other organisms like mycorrhizae and yeasts.

[greentiger87]

Umm. I might be crazy, but this is actually working.

I haven't used a synthetic fungicide on my roses since March, just my actinovate brew. Plants that would normally be half defoliated with blackspot without fungicide treatments every other week.. are pristine. What the heck. I'm also using a horticultural oil once a month or so, but I know that isn't effective against blackspot alone. The peppers that have been bathed in the stuff (along with bacillus subtilis) aren't getting the bacterial disease that had made it impossible to grow them for the last two seasons. None of my treated basils are showing any sign of downy mildew, which had seriously defoliated them in years past. (Untreated basils are definitely suffering. I have a lot of basil).


The most important thing about brewing my own is that.. I just have so much of it! I have enough that I don't even bother with a sprayer, I just pour it onto the leaves with a watering can...which greatly increases the chances that I'll actually do it. I mean seriously, I have so much of it that I can use it on every single plant I have... without worrying. I have so much I don't know what to do with it!

Thick streptomycete mycelium grows wherever I pour the stuff.. it's gorgeous!

I don't even feel bad about extending the product.. because I actually am going to end up buying more of it. I usually use two packs a year.. this year I've ordered three. Why? Culturing it has made it much easier for me to use. It's allowed me to confirm that it works for multiple serious problems I've been having - which takes away that fear that I'm wasting my money on "organic gardening magic". Plus, I've become a major brand ambassador.

I should really start a new thread on this.

My next project is to culture a useful strain of trichoderma viride!

[Redbaron]

glad to hear it

[RayR]

Nice work greentiger87. A new thread would be cool.
Wow! You're actually seeing the colonies in the garden?
Got any pictures documenting the culturing and the results?

[greentiger87]

Sure! Here's some quick shots I took with my phone, not even great examples. Note, actinomycetes in minimally fertilized mulch beds is ubiquitous. I've had "fire fang", as mushroom growers call it, around my shrubs and trees for years. But this is first time I've seen it in pots and my high turnover vegetable beds. The "straw" in the photo is my winter cover crop of ryegrass. The other pics are of my fall tomato transplants, a little over a week in. The white masses showed up within several weeks of applying actinovate.

Oh, and I didn't use any fungicides (other than my brews) on my tomatoes this year.. but that's not necessarily unusual. I pull them out at the end of June before early blight can really become a problem.

My setup is super sophisticated and exciting, as you can see

[beeman]

I have been following this thread for some time, mainly as I brewed ACT for a few years before realizing I was in fact making matters worse.
This year trying to combat the 'wilts' knowing I had Corky Root Rot I decided to stick to just one treatment, trying to eliminate the 'waste of time' treatments.
Biotamax was my treatment of choice, inoculating each plant at 'plant out' time. Dipping each one, complete with pot in bucket of brewed Biotamax, waiting for the bubbles to subside, then planting out.
It worked, or as far as I can determine. I still have plants wilting, on pulling them the roots and stems are clean, cutting into the stems I'm finding the brown stain indicative of F/V.
It seems Biotamax helps with CRR. Makes one wonder what other diseases it is good for, certainly not for F/V.

[amideutch]

Here are a few reads on Trichoderma.

http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2011/...ponic-systems/

http://www.avocadosource.com/WAC5/Papers/WAC5_p725.pdf

[RayR]

Originally Posted by greentiger87

Sure! Here's some quick shots I took with my phone, not even great examples. Note, actinomycetes in minimally fertilized mulch beds is ubiquitous. I've had "fire fang", as mushroom growers call it, around my shrubs and trees for years. But this is first time I've seen it in pots and my high turnover vegetable beds. The "straw" in the photo is my winter cover crop of ryegrass. The other pics are of my fall tomato transplants, a little over a week in. The white masses showed up within several weeks of applying actinovate.

Oh, and I didn't use any fungicides (other than my brews) on my roses this year.. but that's not necessarily unusual. I pull them out at the end of June before early blight can really become a problem.

My setup is super sophisticated and exciting, as you can see

Love the hi-tech lab equipment, the floral pattern is very stylish.
I've seen the white speckling of Streptomyces before, but that growth is intense.

[greenthumbomaha]

Any opinions or newer research on this topic ? The expensive potting mediums seem to have them included, but I question their viability under different handling and storage variables..

My beloved Tomato Thrive is not available. I used to inoculate at first pot up and another drink at plant out.

- Lisa

[Ricky Shaw]

I put it in the helpful category and probably not essential, but at under 10 cents a seedling I'm doing it. It's beyond dispute that it has an effect, some plants can't grow or germinate without it.

The Promix comes with and as do many others and I wouldn't use additional if it's fresh stuff. I've read by the 2nd year bagged the myco have diminished considerably and depleted nitrogen
in the process. I'll be adding the myco to last years leftover promix and to pots of peat/coco/perlite mixes.

[Cole_Robbie]

Mycogrow is very cheap. I use it.

I also bottom water in the same tub, and let a lot of the plants drip back into that tub. I am thinking that should mix the beneficials around between plants.