HELP APPRECIATED: Tatiana's TOMATObase

[natural]

Steve,

I actually went to to your website because of the comments "many new varieties" and "aesthetically pleasing". I had not visited your site before. Even after re-reading the thread, I took away nothing negative (from my perspective). I would assume that potential customers are not going to be interested in programatically extracting data.

I enjoyed your website and plan on ordering.

[ddsack]

As a friend of mine recently pointed out, if you have to have the disclaimer “no offense” that usually means you knew it would offend and you probably should not say it. I inferred from your statements, and perhaps others did too, that Double Helix Farms is doing something wrong, is burdensome and difficult to use.

Absolutely not! The context of this was data extraction from your website, nothing to do with how a normal buyer browsing it would use it. All the seed vendor sites have different ways of building their websites, and had no way of knowing in advance that Tania would be interfacing with them in some way. The fact that your site is harder for her to download the information she needs, has nothing to do with how the rest of us use it, and I can't see where her comments would make me or anyone else less likely to use it.

[Tania]

Dear Steve,

I really did not mean any offense, please accept my sincere apologies. I did not mean to offend you. All I can say, I am not that type of person who would want to offend anybody. I used the expression without knowing its true meaning. I am very sorry.

And I am so glad that you posted here about your feelings, otherwise I would have had no idea that I offended you! And I appreciate the lesson on the usage and context of 'no offense', I will take it close to my heart and will never use it again.

You do not need to defend your website, as it looks beautiful.

In retrospect, I probably should have just asked you for your list, but I decided not to, as I thought that you have been recovering and have so much on your plate, so I decided to collect the data myself. Obviously I have no issue with your business, as my intent was (and is) to add your listings to TOMATObase so the folks would go and visit your website and purchase seeds.

I also would like to take this opportunity to apologize to all other folks, if I did or said anything that hurt anyone. If I did, please let me know, I will do my best to set it straight and learn from the experience.

I think at this time is it the best that I will remove any mention of Double Helix Farms in my posts. I hope this will help to settle the issue, along with my sincere apology. Please let me know what else I can do to make you feel better.

Tatiana

[bower]

Wow... amazing job everyone! Tania, I'm sorry I wasn't around to help this time. But at least now I know how your site works!! (sort of?)

Every time I google for information about a tomato, I impatiently look for your site. If it's not on the first page (heaven forbid) I will google again 'tomato name Tatiana'. If that doesn't work, I'm usually out of luck. Sometimes I just settle down and use your search engine. But I never thought about or realized it is a member driven wiki. (did I get that right?)

This is also the only site where a person can look for vendor information. It's incredibly useful to buyers and for the vendors too. Indeed, great for tomatoes!! Thanks to everyone for helping Tania update the site.

[Doug9345]

I thought the event helped a great site and got more people involved. I too didn't realize it was able to be edited by the user. I'll have to figure out how to create an account there. Unfortunately the simplest sights are the hardest to extract data from while the nicest sites are the hardest.

[Tania]

Bower, please do not be sorry - I am sure there would be plenty of opportunities to help (especially now, when I 'got over' my issue of doing everything I can myself - I learned how to ask for help, and that's a huge step forward! )

I cannot even start expressing how I feel seeing so many folks coming to help out! It feels wonderful.

I will do my best to post step-by-step instructions on how to post your growout notes and pictures. I know the wiki is not the most user friendly engine from the editing standpoint, and this makes it hard for many folks. But hopefully we can help each over out.

I also would like to mention again that every person's contribution to TOMATObase is acknowledged on the Community Portal page. There is already a long list of folks who helped and continue to help. Even 1 picture or 1 paragraph of your growing experience with 1 variety counts!

[bower]

I agree that seeing different people's experience with a variety is very important and more contributions would be a plus for all the readers. I will certainly contribute in future, too. And I am very thankful to your major contributors, some of whom have grown thousands of varieties..... wow.

[ContainerTed]

Tania, I believe everyone is trying to say that you give us so much, we finally found a way to return something to you. We can only guess how much work it has taken, so we will jump at any opportunity to show our appreciation. Right now we want you to feel the love. We're here actually anxious to help all the time.

Dear Lady, you have only to ask.

[Tania]

This what we have accomplished yesterday:

We have collected 6454 vendor records in a single master spreadsheet.

That was SOME HELP!!!

Some of these are 'duplicates' - different vendor entries for each variety, and I expect that after consolidating the list it will be around 3,000 tomato varieties, some with a single vendor offering it, and some are with up to 15 vendors offering it.

Michael already imported Wild Boar Farms, Casey's, and Heritage Tomato Seeds listings. There are 31 more vendor lists to import - when Michael is ready to pick them up and run through his magic tool.

We are still waiting for 3 vendors to update their 2013 catalogs (Marianna's, Glecklers, and Sandhill)

I updated most of the vendor pages with 'new' varieties for 2013.

What else can I say?
You guys rock!!!

I think without you, I'd be a little overwhelmed with the job.

[matilda'skid]

Steve,
I ordered from you today because I saw the name Double Helix on Tania's site where she said that she had your 2013 list finished. Then when I read about how your list was hard for her, I thought that she meant because your site is more elaborate than Sandhill which is just a big list no illustration.

[maf]

Originally Posted by Tania

I appreciate the lesson on the usage and context of 'no offense', I will take it close to my heart and will never use it again.

Tania, please do not feel that you did anything wrong by using this phrase. It is true that it is possible for it to be considered insulting, but only if it is used in an insulting context. "No offense" can literally be defined as "I intend no offense by these remarks", and is often used when one person wishes to make it clear to another that although they disagree on the issue being discussed they still respect the other person. It might be considered a slightly less formal way of saying "with all due respect" as a way to precede a polite disagreement.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by maf

Tania, please do not feel that you did anything wrong by using this phrase. It is true that it is possible for it to be considered insulting, but only if it is used in an insulting context. "No offense" can literally be defined as "I intend no offense by these remarks", and is often used when one person wishes to make it clear to another that although they disagree on the issue being discussed they still respect the other person. It might be considered a slightly less formal way of saying "with all due respect" as a way to precede a polite disagreement.

That is correct, however it still denotes disagreement, I don't think Tania meant to disagree with anything doublehelix does, or even hint doublehelix does something wrong. Since Tania apparently isn't a native English speaker, she probably missed the subtle connotation.

I know when I saw it there was the tiniest little reflex thought that said, "HEY!, that's a compliment!" I often use backhanded compliments this way. It lightens the mood to use a very dry subtle humor like this. But I doubt now that Tania meant it in this context after hearing her apology. She apparently did not even realise the subtle negative connotation at all. So for her, it probably is a good thing to be careful using the phrase.

[Tania]

maf, this is what I thought, but since Steve got offended, I will watch my language. After all, it is all about how the other side perceives what you said, especially when it is not so easy to understand/express your true emotions in writing. And I do feel very sorry that Steve got offended, and I hope he feels better now.

[Tania]

Scott, it my world the 'no offense' would have also been a compliment, but 'my world' has been among computer geeks for so long, we may have forgotten how to interact with normal people . Plus English is not my first language, as many of you know.

[Tania]

Folks, I posted the spreadsheet and some interesting data facts in a new thread, so it does not get lost here.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=319365