Keeping Cats Out of Beds!

[Nattybo!]

Originally Posted by Worth1

The best time is during the week day on weekends it is full of people from Austin.
That is when we always went on week days.
Also the Pacific War museum is there and is the home town of Admiral Nimitz.

Here is a good story about Easter and the place.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aW_4qNzni6lnYg

My family comes from just north of it about 70 miles away in Bend Texas.

Wow! Great Easter story and timely too Thank you Worth! And for the information about the war museum too. My hubby is a history buff and the museum there will make it easier to convince him that we need to go for a visit one of these days.

[Worth1]

Give yourself two days to go through it it is that big.
There is one new part dedicated to George H W Bush.
He was shot down next to an island that he was the only person to ever survive and be picked up by a submarine.
He lost both of his crew members and to this day if brought up he will shed tears about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...h#World_War_II
This is about the man as a war hero, nothing else to stick with the rules here.
So many good men and women died to keep not only our country but our world free.

Then there is Enchanted Rock you have to see.
It is a huge granite dome protruding from the earth.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...o9_8qeIYh87hgA

A person could spend a month in this area and be entertained and never see the big city and eat like a king and stay in some of the finest bed and breakfast around.
We stayed in one in Fredericksburg the old bed was so big you could get lost in it and two people could go scuba diving in the wonderful modern tub.
The LBJ ranch is just up the road.

And the wineries vineyards and wine tastings.
The peach orchards and on and on and on.
I used to work in a granite quarry in Fredericksburg for awhile.

.
Worth

[frankcar1965]

Poor solution to feral cat populations, Trap and release, they still get sick and run over by cars and torn to shreds by dogs. I have never understood the concept except it makes people feel better. And everyone should STOP feeding feral cats, it just makes them more likely to reproduce and make MORE feral cats to get run over, sick attacked. At work, and it was always the ladies for some reason, they kept bringing food and feeding the FC group. Before long there where even tens more either from breeding or just the attraction to food. Mangers sent memo to stop it but it continued and there was cats coming out of the bushes everywhere. So they called animal control and brought out the traps and took them all away to you know what. So by feeding the cats they more or less killed them. Better to have a few hungry cats than many that have been gassed to death. There is no spay and release here, they kill them all.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Poor solution to feral cat populations, Trap and release,

No, the approach is trap, NEUTER, and release. Big difference.

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

they still get sick and run over by cars and torn to shreds by dogs. I have never understood the concept except it makes people feel better. And everyone should STOP feeding feral cats, it just makes them more likely to reproduce and make MORE feral cats to get run over, sick attacked. At work, and it was always the ladies for some reason, they kept bringing food and feeding the FC group. Before long there where even tens more either from breeding or just the attraction to food. Mangers sent memo to stop it but it continued and there was cats coming out of the bushes everywhere. So they called animal control and brought out the traps and took them all away to you know what. So by feeding the cats they more or less killed them. Better to have a few hungry cats than many that have been gassed to death. There is no spay and release here, they kill them all.

The reason you don't understand it is because you're leaving out the NEUTER part.

Cats reproduce extremely quickly. If you just kill the cats in a feral population, others will come to take their place. You also run the risk of killing people's pets by mistake.

When you trap, NEUTER, and release, you cut down on reproduction enough that the colony does not grow and even shrinks.

As for feeding the cats, yes, it makes humans feel better. But it also keeps the cats in a certain radius because they stay near where they are being fed, and it helps to monitor who needs to be neutered and aids in trapping.

Note that this is an approach to managing established feral populations. It's not what's done when someone just finds a stray cat or two.

TNR just works better than catch and kill for these situations. And whether it's more humane to kill a cat than to let it take its chances with predators and cars... I think there's hardly an obvious answer to that question.

And I'll stop here, since we don't want this to turn into an argument about managing feral cat colonies. But there is plenty of information available online on TNR if you want to understand.

[dmforcier]

There was a feral colony here when I moved in. Lots of skinny cats and lots of boys fighting over girls. Queens nesting in the bushes. Trap, neuter, release, feed. Now there are a bunch of well-fed, laid-back cats.

Dearth of cute kittens, unfortunately.

[frankcar1965]

I undedrstand quite well, I would rather have cats euthanised relativlely painlessly than hurt and alive after being running over by a car or torn up by a dog. You must live in LALA land but the reality in most places is that they are picked off by disease and injury and abuse. Here we have a well developed fighting dog culture and it is common knowledge that the owners catch cats and throw them to the dogs so they get a "taste" for blood. TNR is just feeding that lust. TNR is also just a feel good thing, it does not stop cats being maimed and starving to death. I don't want to get into a ★★★★ing match either since I seem to have penchant for doing that here when expressing my opinion. Funny thing is that no one would approve TNR for dogs at all and neither would they tolerate letting dogs run all over, even smaller dogs, I dont think the vast number of AC agencies have a TNR program either and that is a assumption, AC is very often low on the list. There is a cat that has repeatedly come into my yard over my fence and attacked my cat who STAYS in my back yard and caused injury and I think he is feral cat. My cat stays in my yard and if she did not she would not go outside, but that does not stop feral cats from entering and hurting my cat. For some reason people do not hold cats to the same reasoning that they do for dogs, and think they should just roam free.

[dmforcier]

Cheez, frank, could you be any more depressing?

[Worth1]

I was working at a foo foo place out by lake Travis.
It was some sort of alternative medicine lifestyle place that did all sorts of crazy things like people getting magic dust sprinkled on them to run off spirits.

They told me not to pet the wild cats because they weren't part of the natural environment.
These people came in to the woods and put up all kinds of buildings and such.
I told them they weren't part of the natural environment and they should leave.
The cats were there first.
Nobody tells me I cant pet a cat.
Worth

[imp]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

No, the approach is trap, NEUTER, and release. Big difference.



The reason you don't understand it is because you're leaving out the NEUTER part.

Cats reproduce extremely quickly. If you just kill the cats in a feral population, others will come to take their place. You also run the risk of killing people's pets by mistake.

When you trap, NEUTER, and release, you cut down on reproduction enough that the colony does not grow and even shrinks.

As for feeding the cats, yes, it makes humans feel better. But it also keeps the cats in a certain radius because they stay near where they are being fed, and it helps to monitor who needs to be neutered and aids in trapping.

Note that this is an approach to managing established feral populations. It's not what's done when someone just finds a stray cat or two.

TNR just works better than catch and kill for these situations. And whether it's more humane to kill a cat than to let it take its chances with predators and cars... I think there's hardly an obvious answer to that question.

And I'll stop here, since we don't want this to turn into an argument about managing feral cat colonies. But there is plenty of information available online on TNR if you want to understand.

I agree very much.

There is a feral cat colony , several in WF actually, and while their lives may be shortened by being feral, they also keep down rats & other vermin since they hunt. Both of the current cats I have now, have come from the feral group here. One as a pair of sick kittens hand raised ( sigh) and one who is a squatter, LOL. Pigs decided at "teen" age that living indoors with food and people is much better. Pigs has an ear notch and both are spayed. Both are indoor cats for the most part ( Lula does not touch icky dirt with HER feet!) and Pigs has only gone outside once since she squatted and made claim.

Even though so many are spayed/neutered, people leave cats behind, and the cycle starts again. It is more of a people problem than the cats problem.

Thankfully, I haven't had a problem with the cats using my beds for a litter box, though at times, they do lounge about my yard. Even the back yard where the main problem is the resident Lab who likes to lick the cats and doesn't understand why the cats prefer not to be dripping dog drool...

[frankcar1965]

And yet there is no studies to show that TNR works, read these but I know you will rationalize it as wrong even if the data shows otherwise, and a google search will provide even more. And dmforcier, it is a reality and not a "feel good" situation. One should be appalled at the abuse that goes on and not stick your head in the sand.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014...t-doesnt-work/
Even peta does not really endorse it:
http://www.peta.org/about-peta/faq/w...ng-feral-cats/
And this one where the comments are more informative than the article itself:
https://www.animalsheltering.org/blo...-work-prove-it

[imp]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

And yet there is no studies to show that TNR works, read these but I know you will rationalize it as wrong even if the data shows otherwise, and a google search will provide even more. And dmforcier, it is a reality and not a "feel good" situation. One should be appalled at the abuse that goes on and not stick your head in the sand.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014...t-doesnt-work/
Even peta does not really endorse it:
http://www.peta.org/about-peta/faq/w...ng-feral-cats/
And this one where the comments are more informative than the article itself:
https://www.animalsheltering.org/blo...-work-prove-it

Your link to the article about/containing the Rome study seems to show it can work.

I really only know about here and how it is managed here. The cats are spayed, given shots, ears notched, and the only new kittens come from dumped or let loose cats.

sarcasm/ Maybe we should TNR with an ear notch the idiots who don't spay their cats ( free programs here!) or especially those who dump the cats when they no longer are cute or many other reasons. / sarcasm

I am thankful that there is a program for TNR here as even with 4 dumpsters in the alley way, very little rodent activity is noted. Also, the wild pigeon population is down around my house, which is nice as pigeon poop is pretty acidic and we do have mature trees over the parking areas- and the pigeons used to leave more that 15 pigeon splats a day on each vehicle.

A big problem during a plus year drought.

So, maybe a trade of the pigeons for the cats, but the cats don't poop on my cars.

[frankcar1965]

Apparently you did not read the article fully but you skimmed it, the Rome operation DID NOT work- here is the pertinent info for you to read fully:
Trapping and neutering decreased the populations of 55 cat colonies there, while the other 48 colonies either gained population or stayed the same. The authors of that study concluded that, in the absence of a public education campaign to stop people from abandoning cats, “all these efforts” are “a waste of money, time and energy.”

[frankcar1965]

I'm really shocked or maybe not that no one is concerned about the cats that are left to fend for themselves even if they do not breed. You know, we're talking about a living being and not about people's feelings that make them feel good about themselves. It's not all about us. I take animal abuse very seriously and TNR comes close to it in my book. How can anyone RETURN an animal back to a hostile environment where it does not belong? I am totally perplexed by this. Cats are not a native wild animals and to return them back to be maimed and very likely sick is mind boggling. They need either homes or to be put down humanely.

[AlittleSalt]

Wow, this thread is not how I remembered it many posts ago. (Not saying good, bad or whatever - just not what I was expecting.)

Anyway, going back to what this thread was started about - I'm having a problem with our very pregnant cat insisting our raised beds are her personal litter box. I have okra, squash, and new-to-us beans planted out there that have not germinated yet. I don't have any practical ideas on how to keep her out of them that allows the seeds to germinate. Sure, I could keep her in the house, but she does not like using an actual litter box - nor does she like staying inside.

[SueCT]

If you don't want to train her to use a litter box, or never really have before now, I don't know that you have that many options. The motion sprinkler would be one, although you would need them on all sides of the garden, predator urine would be another, and fencing the last one I can think of without risking some harm to your cat. What about a less expensive temporary fence? I have those 8' tall metal fence posts at each corner of my garden and one halfway down each side. I can hook an inexpensive string trellis all around with this, and take it down when its not needed. I did that for peas to trellis on, but something similar would keep the cat out.