Mums for fall... - Page 8

Cole_Robbie · August 23, 2018

My pyrethrins, dawn, and DE that I sprayed last night wiped them out. They will come right back, though.

imp · August 23, 2018

At least those won't be eating and reproducing.

Cole_Robbie · September 5, 2018

The aphids keep getting worse, and now I have whiteflies as well. Yesterday, I broke down and sprayed malathion. I also ordered some of the systemic neonic stuff, which I can now see why is so popular...nothing else works. Neem oil was pointless. If my greenhouse was screened in, then maybe lady bugs would work, but in an open 40-acre field, I'm not going to contain them.

The heavy bug pressure of late summer may drive me out of the mum business next year. I don't like spraying chemical pesticides, but mums seem to require them.

clkeiper · September 5, 2018

yep... that is exactly why they are so useful, but this isn't a food crop so don't feel too stressed over it. just apply the stuff and be happy its available. I have never seen so many aphids and white fly as this year either. between the cucumber beetles and the aphids they have destroyed my melon crop this year. the tomatoes re a constant battle for me and the cucumbers in the greenhouse were trashed by the aphids and cucumber beetles since it was too hot to keep it closed. and I think neem is a waste too unless you are the one selling it.... I see no effect on the insect pressure. it just gets worse and worse.

bower · September 5, 2018

Know your neonics: the gift that keeps giving (2 years!).
https://beebettercertified.org/unpac...neonicotinoids

You need a perennial flower garden to keep beneficials around. I wonder why mums are such a pest magnet. Peppers are the worst I've ever known, for deluxe aphid hotel. If I put them out in the garden they're clean in no time... but unfortunately it is not a pepper climate here for very long.

Cole_Robbie · September 5, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by bower

Know your neonics: the gift that keeps giving (2 years!).
https://beebettercertified.org/unpac...neonicotinoids

Thanks for the link:
The nitro-group neonicotinoids are much more toxic to bees than the cyano-group neonics, which include acetamiprid and thiacloprid

Acetaniprid is what I ordered.

imp · September 9, 2018

How are your baby mums doing now, Cole?

Cole_Robbie · September 10, 2018

The malathion helped a lot. I can see the residual effect of it, especially compared to the pyrethrins. And I don't have mosquitoes in the greenhouse any more. They had gotten bad from me leaving greenhouse plastic around in the weeds and it holding water. I'm going to spray the acetaniprid tonight...very carefully, respirator and all.

GrowingCoastal · September 10, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Thanks for the link:
The nitro-group neonicotinoids are much more toxic to bees than the cyano-group neonics, which include acetamiprid and thiacloprid

Acetaniprid is what I ordered.

Hmmm. This is making me rethink the idea of getting a pot of decorative mums for my door step this fall. ALmost bought on on the weekend. If the pollen will kill the local bees, I don't want it.

Cole_Robbie · September 10, 2018

I'm pretty sure all the places that sell rooted cuttings also use neonics, which are systemic and therefore would be in the cutting. I don't know if that is enough to kill bees, but it is about impossible to avoid neonics altogether. Maybe that is different in Canada, I don't know.

bower · September 10, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingCoastal

Hmmm. This is making me rethink the idea of getting a pot of decorative mums for my door step this fall. ALmost bought on on the weekend. If the pollen will kill the local bees, I don't want it.

I thought the same thing. Recoiling in horror now when I see them lined up at the curb outside the supermarket...

I'm just shocked that mums are so buggy. I mean, they naturally contain pyrethrins, so I would have expected a 'do your own insecticide' effect.

OTOH that explains why spraying with pyrethrum didn't help.

Cole_Robbie · September 20, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by imp

How are your baby mums doing now, Cole?

Chugging along. I am more than ready for them to start blooming.

Cole_Robbie · October 6, 2018

....and my aphids are back, despite spraying the systemic neonic about two weeks ago. I thought systemic meant that I didnt have to keep spraying, but apparently not.

bower · October 6, 2018

Wow... that sucks!

Personally, I never met a pesticide that didn't disappoint me. But I only used the lame soap or neem or whatever... still it turned into a never ending cycle of mess your place up seriously with sprays (think my living room) and repeat, repeat, until you'd rather chuck those plants in a hole in the woods and forget it.

Meanwhile, aphids are just a curse. What was mother nature thinking???

MissMoustache · October 10, 2018

I ordered mums from a local green house wholesaler for my workplace. They weren't buggy at all, there were little packets of stuff tucked into each plant tray to get rid of bugs. I can call them this week and find out what it is? It was labeled a biological so I assume organic pesticide of some sort. They generally are very careful to use bee safe stuff since it's important to their clients.

And your mums are gorgeous! I'm loving the colors!

September 5, 2018	#109
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	yep... that is exactly why they are so useful, but this isn't a food crop so don't feel too stressed over it. just apply the stuff and be happy its available. I have never seen so many aphids and white fly as this year either. between the cucumber beetles and the aphids they have destroyed my melon crop this year. the tomatoes re a constant battle for me and the cucumbers in the greenhouse were trashed by the aphids and cucumber beetles since it was too hot to keep it closed. and I think neem is a waste too unless you are the one selling it.... I see no effect on the insect pressure. it just gets worse and worse. __________________ carolyn k

September 9, 2018	#112
imp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 4,832	How are your baby mums doing now, Cole? __________________ I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.

October 10, 2018	#120
MissMoustache Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cold hardy zone 4b-5a, Heat zone 4-5, Sunset zone 43 Posts: 228	I ordered mums from a local green house wholesaler for my workplace. They weren't buggy at all, there were little packets of stuff tucked into each plant tray to get rid of bugs. I can call them this week and find out what it is? It was labeled a biological so I assume organic pesticide of some sort. They generally are very careful to use bee safe stuff since it's important to their clients. And your mums are gorgeous! I'm loving the colors! __________________ Books, cats, gardening...life is good! gwendolyninthegarden.blogspot.com Last edited by MissMoustache; October 10, 2018 at 01:28 PM.

August 23, 2018	#106
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	My pyrethrins, dawn, and DE that I sprayed last night wiped them out. They will come right back, though.

August 23, 2018	#107
imp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 4,832	At least those won't be eating and reproducing.

September 5, 2018	#108
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	The aphids keep getting worse, and now I have whiteflies as well. Yesterday, I broke down and sprayed malathion. I also ordered some of the systemic neonic stuff, which I can now see why is so popular...nothing else works. Neem oil was pointless. If my greenhouse was screened in, then maybe lady bugs would work, but in an open 40-acre field, I'm not going to contain them. The heavy bug pressure of late summer may drive me out of the mum business next year. I don't like spraying chemical pesticides, but mums seem to require them.

September 5, 2018	#110
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Know your neonics: the gift that keeps giving (2 years!). https://beebettercertified.org/unpac...neonicotinoids You need a perennial flower garden to keep beneficials around. I wonder why mums are such a pest magnet. Peppers are the worst I've ever known, for deluxe aphid hotel. If I put them out in the garden they're clean in no time... but unfortunately it is not a pepper climate here for very long.

September 10, 2018	#113
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	The malathion helped a lot. I can see the residual effect of it, especially compared to the pyrethrins. And I don't have mosquitoes in the greenhouse any more. They had gotten bad from me leaving greenhouse plastic around in the weeds and it holding water. I'm going to spray the acetaniprid tonight...very carefully, respirator and all.

September 10, 2018	#115
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I'm pretty sure all the places that sell rooted cuttings also use neonics, which are systemic and therefore would be in the cutting. I don't know if that is enough to kill bees, but it is about impossible to avoid neonics altogether. Maybe that is different in Canada, I don't know.

October 6, 2018	#118
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	....and my aphids are back, despite spraying the systemic neonic about two weeks ago. I thought systemic meant that I didnt have to keep spraying, but apparently not.

October 6, 2018	#119
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Wow... that sucks! Personally, I never met a pesticide that didn't disappoint me. But I only used the lame soap or neem or whatever... still it turned into a never ending cycle of mess your place up seriously with sprays (think my living room) and repeat, repeat, until you'd rather chuck those plants in a hole in the woods and forget it. Meanwhile, aphids are just a curse. What was mother nature thinking???