Drip Tape Irrigation

[JackE]

Six kids! Lord have Mercy! That's great - but good luck on getting them to do farm work in the times we live in now. My wife and I have two boys and that was more than enough for us to handle! Be nice to your wife and behave - I'd hate to write THAT child support check!

I have a 100 gal trailer sprayer but I rarely use the boom on the back. Mostly I just use the hose and hand gun. With small areas like your's and mine - usually spraying only a few rows or etc - it's not practical to try and use the spray booms. That's for larger, single crop plantings. I'll use the booms if I have a whole acre at once - like pre-emergent herbicide before the tomatoes. I like the direct control I get with the backpack - never completely comfortable with the booms.

The sprayer is invaluable for applying liquid fertilizer - I can apply it most accurately right from the tractor seat using an ordinary garden nozzle and low pressure (20#) - 4 rows on each side of the tractor at a time. It's also good for keeping new seedbeds wet until they emerge and as a water source for mixing pesticides in the field.

Somebody said here a while back that you can't accurately apply pesticides with a back pack. Not true. Most the labels we use have mixing instructions for small areas with the stipulation not to exceed the max per/acre amount. You just have to do the math - An acre is 44K sq ft. but I use 40K for convenience (the error is on the side of safety) so I can do it in my head. So if I have 4k sq ft to treat, I simply apply 10% of the per/acre amount to that area. I have my backpack calibrated to my regular walking speed and can apply it just as accurately as with the spray boom - probably better, because I'm never quite sure just what's going-on back there at the boom - know what I mean? Nozzles plug-up, break, come loose etc - and with the backpack I have eyeball control.

If you don't want to calibrate the backpack by walking speed, you can mix the required amount - let's say the label calls for 6 oz/acre and you have 2.5K sq ft. That's 3/8oz oz to apply. So I put that amount in the back pack, add four gals of water, and make several rapid passes up and down the selected rows until the sprayer is empty. With the boom I'm never "quite sure", but with the backpack I KNOW what I put on there!

I never saw a label that prohibited backpacks as someone suggested here. They are, however, adamant about not exceeding the amount allowed per acre.

Jack

[clkeiper]

Jack

There is a drip tape specifically for undulating terrain, called pressure compensating drip tape, produced by a company called aqua-traxx PC. " A new drip to be used on field with varied elevations. Use u[ to 45psi." In my catalog( an amish greenhouse supplier) an 8mmx7500' is $224.10 per roll. I have no idea how competitive this is to where you are at and this place is mail order or stop in and pick it up place. No phones or computers.

And you certainly need a check valve for your well. even if it's not hooked up to a house. You don't want to contaminate the aquifer that you are pulling water from.

We used drip tape under black plastic mulch and a pressure injector for the hightunnels and the garden so we can fertilize the plants under plastic, but I have never seen the drip tape buckle in the garden from the heat or cold fluctuation.We also pull it up at the end of the season and toss it.

There should also be a tool that is available for cutting a hole in the header line specifically for the fitting size for your drip tape called a "punch". it has a beveled cutting edge that you just push up against the header tube and twist to cut the hole in the line. very simple. no mechanics to it at all. Comes in a .40 and .42 diameter size. looks like a gun without a trigger. Hopefully the next time you need to put this together it will be easier for you. Sorry to read the dogs got into yours, I think I would have done more than shot up in the air.
I have learned a lot reading this thread though, thanks for starting it. This was the first year we tried drip tape, but come to find out we lived in the monsoon area of the US. Maybe next year though it will be drier for us and wetter for you. We can pray!

Moon, I can't believe the price you got the pyganics for. I only laughed when my DH though about getting some as I had seen the price at a mere $546.40 for a gal. I was dumb founded at the price you quoted. I looked on the 'net and only found it at about 1/2 of that, but it was still way too much money for me. At 2 qts. per acre this could become extremely expensive.

[moon1234]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

Jack

There is a drip tape specifically for undulating terrain, called pressure compensating drip tape, produced by a company called aqua-traxx PC. " A new drip to be used on field with varied elevations. Use u[ to 45psi." In my catalog( an amish greenhouse supplier) an 8mmx7500' is $224.10 per roll. I have no idea how competitive this is to where you are at and this place is mail order or stop in and pick it up place. No phones or computers.

And you certainly need a check valve for your well. even if it's not hooked up to a house. You don't want to contaminate the aquifer that you are pulling water from.

We used drip tape under black plastic mulch and a pressure injector for the hightunnels and the garden so we can fertilize the plants under plastic, but I have never seen the drip tape buckle in the garden from the heat or cold fluctuation.We also pull it up at the end of the season and toss it.

There should also be a tool that is available for cutting a hole in the header line specifically for the fitting size for your drip tape called a "punch". it has a beveled cutting edge that you just push up against the header tube and twist to cut the hole in the line. very simple. no mechanics to it at all. Comes in a .40 and .42 diameter size. looks like a gun without a trigger. Hopefully the next time you need to put this together it will be easier for you. Sorry to read the dogs got into yours, I think I would have done more than shot up in the air.
I have learned a lot reading this thread though, thanks for starting it. This was the first year we tried drip tape, but come to find out we lived in the monsoon area of the US. Maybe next year though it will be drier for us and wetter for you. We can pray!

Moon, I can't believe the price you got the pyganics for. I only laughed when my DH though about getting some as I had seen the price at a mere $546.40 for a gal. I was dumb founded at the price you quoted. I looked on the 'net and only found it at about 1/2 of that, but it was still way too much money for me. At 2 qts. per acre this could become extremely expensive.

MGK, the maker of Pyganic, sells mostly commercial pesticides. My guess is the local ag companies have a negotiated discount with MGK for all of their products. Most of the online shops probably double the price. I was surprised and happy at the good price for the pyganic. This was for the 1.4 EC II product and not the concentrated stuff. Pyganic EC 5.0 II is much more expensive. The only benefit I could see was that it was more concentrated. Maybe the price you were quoted was for a gallon of the more concentrated stuff?

[JackE]

Ckl --

I did put-in backflow protection - double check valves - thanks to advice from my cyberfriend, Worth. The well I am using is just a few feet from the house well. We dug a new, deeper well when we built here in 1991 and the old one had been sitting there idle for 20 years. I was surprised there was still water in it.

I saw the punch in the catalog, but I think it's just for black tubing type material. All my feeder, main lines and manifolds are schedule 40, 2" PVC pipe - not because I need pipe that big, but because I tore-up an older gravity drip system and already had tons of that 2" PVC. Two of my zones are close to the well but the other three are 400+ ft away - the larger pipe helps in that case.

I guess you don't have the snaking problem because the tape is under plastic. The longer the run, the worse the snaking. I have some short -50' - runs and they don't snake as badly as the 100+ ft rows. I am using the 15mil tape and plan to use it year after year. Maybe that heavier stuff snakes worse than the 8mil.

Jack

[clkeiper]

Moon, The product in my catalog, I think, is the concentrated stuff. 5% pyrethrins/2 qts. per acre.

Jack, I am sorry, I must have read that you put this in with schedule 40, but it right thru the thought process. Duh! Yes we are using the black plastic manifold. Primarily we aren't using 100' rows either. so maybe the problem would be noticeable for us if we were, but since it is under p mulch maybe I wouldn't. We also have an 11# pressure valve on ours. I don't know if that makes any difference or not.

[JackE]

No, the pressure regulator is not a factor - as long as it has water in it, it pretty much stays put. But after the water is shut off it becomes a "living thing". :-)

Jack

[Cole_Robbie]

Whenever I use Google to try to answer questions before asking tomatoville, I end up on old threads at tomatoville. Let me bump this one with a drip question.

I have three rows on drip in a high tunnel. Then I added two rows outside the high tunnel. They were easy to connect, I just lengthened the header line. Now I want to add 4 or 5 more rows on the other side of the high tunnel. Can I just put a T and an elbow in the header line to branch it off in the other direction? Or do I have to make the water enter the header line at one end? Every design I have seen has the header in a straight line.

I am using an EZ-flow injector if that makes any difference in the answer. I understand that normally flow is lost when making a turn in tubing, but once the header line equalizes in pressure, I don't think it will matter. But I'm not sure.

[moon1234]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Whenever I use Google to try to answer questions before asking tomatoville, I end up on old threads at tomatoville. Let me bump this one with a drip question.

I have three rows on drip in a high tunnel. Then I added two rows outside the high tunnel. They were easy to connect, I just lengthened the header line. Now I want to add 4 or 5 more rows on the other side of the high tunnel. Can I just put a T and an elbow in the header line to branch it off in the other direction? Or do I have to make the water enter the header line at one end? Every design I have seen has the header in a straight line.

I am using an EZ-flow injector if that makes any difference in the answer. I understand that normally flow is lost when making a turn in tubing, but once the header line equalizes in pressure, I don't think it will matter. But I'm not sure.

Each Tee or Ell will have a .5-1.5 PSI drop in pressure. My guess is that you have a 15 or 12 PSI pressure regulator at the field and the Ell and T is after the pressure regulator? This should be fine. In some fields we have there are three of four TEEs or ELLs before the pressure regulator and it does not have an effect at all. As long as pressure is around 6 psi or greater at the end of the tape, you will be fine.

We have 40-50 300' long tape runs on a single header that has both a TEE (in the middle with 20-25 runs on each side) and ELLs to deal with oddly shaped fields. Pressure is 15 PSI before the TEE and the farthest, outermost tape run is still at 10PSI at the end of the tape.

Get the "Drip Tape Owner's Manual" from Toro and read it: http://www.toro.com/en-us/Agricultur...s/default.aspx

Most of your questions will be answered. They recommend their products, but the design is the same no matter who's products you wind up purchasing. I tend to use mostly Toro and some Jain Irrigation equipment. John Deere bought out T-Tape so any references to T-Tape or T-Systems now means John Deere.

Buy from places like Nolt's Midwest Produce Supplies or Nolt's Produce Supplies and save a lot of money.

[Cole_Robbie]

Thanks. I have a Nolts catalog I think. I usually buy my drip supplies from Morgan County Seed in Missouri. They have great prices, and I really like their company.

Now I don't have to move my EZ Flow. I built a bracket for it in the high tunnel because it always falls over on its own.

[FarmerShawn]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Whenever I use Google to try to answer questions before asking tomatoville, I end up on old threads at tomatoville. Let me bump this one with a drip question.

I have three rows on drip in a high tunnel. Then I added two rows outside the high tunnel. They were easy to connect, I just lengthened the header line. Now I want to add 4 or 5 more rows on the other side of the high tunnel. Can I just put a T and an elbow in the header line to branch it off in the other direction? Or do I have to make the water enter the header line at one end? Every design I have seen has the header in a straight line.

I am using an EZ-flow injector if that makes any difference in the answer. I understand that normally flow is lost when making a turn in tubing, but once the header line equalizes in pressure, I don't think it will matter. But I'm not sure.

I've got tees and ells throughout my tangle of main lines. I did, however, put in valves at various points in the main line so I could turn different garden plots and greenhouses on and off as needed, often with just the single valve. Bigger plots have more than one zone. Seems to work for me!


There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Whenever I use Google to try to answer questions before asking tomatoville, I end up on old threads at tomatoville. Let me bump this one with a drip question.

I have three rows on drip in a high tunnel. Then I added two rows outside the high tunnel. They were easy to connect, I just lengthened the header line. Now I want to add 4 or 5 more rows on the other side of the high tunnel. Can I just put a T and an elbow in the header line to branch it off in the other direction? Or do I have to make the water enter the header line at one end? Every design I have seen has the header in a straight line.

I am using an EZ-flow injector if that makes any difference in the answer. I understand that normally flow is lost when making a turn in tubing, but once the header line equalizes in pressure, I don't think it will matter. But I'm not sure.

Here is the deal.
Tees, ells and pipe have what you call friction loss.
The larger the pipe and fittings the less friction loss you have.
What you need to do is at the start of your water feed you need to do.
Put a gauge on the line and read the static pressure.
Turn on the water and either by looking at the meter or using a 5 gallon bucket.
Open the valve all the way open and see how many gallons per minute you have available.

Next count how many drip emitters in the line you have.
The drip line will tell you how much water each emitter puts out by the hour or minute.
Look on line for a calculator to tell you what your friction loss is on the pipe and fittings.
Count all of this up and you will have your answer.

Smaller pipe does NOT increase pressure it increases velocity and reduces pressure.
You want to use the biggest pipe you can use from the main feed to the emitters and then reduce.

I didn't want to look like the village idoit when I put my underground sprinkler system in so this is what I did.
From a 3/4 meter I jumped up to 1 1/2 pipe that ran a little over 100 feet to the 1 inch back flow valve.
At 50 PSI static pressure and 23 gpm I lost about 1 pound of pressure and kept my velocity to I think 1.5 feet per minute.
Back up to 1 1/2 to the one inch valves and then to one inch pipe for the rest of the system.

What this did for me was I had a ton of water and almost no friction loss.
I can run 2 zones on my system and still have a ton of water in the house.

Another thing you could consider is running your systems in a loop.

Feed the runs from both ends and you will balance out the system.

The reason you see the pros use smaller and smaller pipe is to save money.
I did the math and it wasn't worth the savings and I am able to add on the ends if need be.

I also calculated my system to run at 30 psi.

Worth

[moon1234]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Here is the deal.
Tees, ells and pipe have what you call friction loss.
The larger the pipe and fittings the less friction loss you have.
What you need to do is at the start of your water feed you need to do.
Put a gauge on the line and read the static pressure.
Turn on the water and either by looking at the meter or using a 5 gallon bucket.
Open the valve all the way open and see how many gallons per minute you have available.

Next count how many drip emitters in the line you have.
The drip line will tell you how much water each emitter puts out by the hour or minute.
Look on line for a calculator to tell you what your friction loss is on the pipe and fittings.
Count all of this up and you will have your answer.

Smaller pipe does NOT increase pressure it increases velocity and reduces pressure.
You want to use the biggest pipe you can use from the main feed to the emitters and then reduce.

I didn't want to look like the village idoit when I put my underground sprinkler system in so this is what I did.
From a 3/4 meter I jumped up to 1 1/2 pipe that ran a little over 100 feet to the 1 inch back flow valve.
At 50 PSI static pressure and 23 gpm I lost about 1 pound of pressure and kept my velocity to I think 1.5 feet per minute.
Back up to 1 1/2 to the one inch valves and then to one inch pipe for the rest of the system.

What this did for me was I had a ton of water and almost no friction loss.
I can run 2 zones on my system and still have a ton of water in the house.

Another thing you could consider is running your systems in a loop.

Feed the runs from both ends and you will balance out the system.

The reason you see the pros use smaller and smaller pipe is to save money.
I did the math and it wasn't worth the savings and I am able to add on the ends if need be.

I also calculated my system to run at 30 psi.

Worth

With drip, most of this does not really apply. Friction loss is really only calculated in if you have a very long main/header line. Drip tape for most smaller guys is 5/8" and 400-600ft long runs are the norm, but it runs at 15psi MAX with recommended pressure being 8-12 PSI.

The size of the main/header line is really dictated by the GPM flow that is needed. Most drip systems will fall in the 1"-3" header lines unless you are doing many acres at one time. 1" will handle about 18-20GPM before water velocity and pressure start really falling all. Most rural customers don't have 80PSI at the faucet. We have 50 PSI and that is MAX.

1.5" will handle up to around 35-40 GPM before the pressure loss gets too high. That amount will do about an acre of single drip on 7-8ft centers of raised beds. Most smaller growers are not doing more than 4-5 acres so this works out fine. Once you move beyond 4-5 acres in drip the system design and complexity gets out of the realm of MOST smaller producers.

Many states not have high capacity well limits. Ours in Wisconsin is 70GPM. If you have a well that pumps more than 70GPM then you need a high capacity well permit. You also have to report your use to the State and may have pumping fees to pay. This sort of limits you to about 15 acres of drip on a 3-4 zone system. Any more than that and you probably will not be able to keep up with crop demand at the peak demand during summer.

Many of my much larger producer friends move to center pivot when they get bigger. They just don't have the time to deal with large drip systems. I think 70GPM seems like a lot, but then I hear about 200 GPM and up center pivot systems. It makes me wonder how long it takes to pay that system off.

Sorry to get off topic. ELLs and TEEs are not going to have much impact on the system unless there are a LOT of them. Proper system design is MUCH more important in the long run (getting enough water to the drip tapes and at a high enough pressure).

[clkeiper]

Cole robbi, If your drip tape works by pounds of pressure you will not notice any loss. As soon as the lines fill then they start emitting. We put elbows in our line and it forms a stair step around the high tunnels and garden shed. It works by filling all of the drip tape first. When it fills all the lines that are valve opened, then the drip tape starts emitting( at 11 pounds pressure). The friction isn't an issue. We aren't running large volumes through the line quickly, but slowly. Maybe someone watering acres would notice that, though. We always walk though and listen for popped valves or even holes in the driptape. You will notice the sound before you notice the loss of pressure.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I am using an EZ-flow injector if that makes any difference in the answer. I understand that normally flow is lost when making a turn in tubing, but once the header line equalizes in pressure, I don't think it will matter. But I'm not sure.

I would like to ask, how is the EZ-Flow working out for you?
I have read some pretty bad reviews on the product and would like to know.

Worth

[Worth1]

I would like to add something.
If anyone is using a sprinkler system, drip system or fertilizer injection system they need to know something.

For the first two you need at least a double check back flow preventer.
The last you need something better like a vacuum breaker of reduced pressure back flow preventer.

Those little cheap plastic check valves are junk and should never be used.
A good brass vacuum breaker at the faucet is much better and here where I live they are required.
Remember it is all our responsibility to protect our water supply.

Here is a link to why and where.
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/i...ow-preventers/

Worth