New lights for seedlings.

[Worth1]

No amount of regular household fan is going to prepare a plant for high wind.
No plant of this type can deal with that kind of wind no matter what happens it will eat them alive.

Here is how I get my plants used to being outside soon after they sprout they go outside all day on the south east side of my house.
At the time of year I do this the sun is almost at its lowest and not very strong.
They collect sun there and come in at night.
while inside at night they grow in the house and the next morning weather permitting they go back out.
Here is what I discovered.
No matter the temperature outside 40 50 60 even they collect sunlight and energy.
Then they come in and the root ball warms up and the plant grows more stocky.
Cold treatment.
Yes plants do grow in the dark.

Worth

[Worth1]

Here they are.






Here is one on 1/13.2016.

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by schill93

dmforcier: Can you say you speak from experience owning both kinds? I have heard on the issue of #2 from two different people who have used both, that the hardening off with those under #5 was negligible, according to a poster on Tomatoville. Also a contributor on Dave's Garden did a side by side comparison and noted the same thing.

Few people understand the many variables in a "side-by-side" comparison. Read my #0 above. "T5" us merely a specification of tube shape and electrical interface. Saying that "I used T5 and had these results" is meaningless without nailing down all the other variables.

Let me be more clear here. There is very little correlation between "T5" and "light intensity". Some tubes (notably T5HO - the most expensive) are brighter per tube-inch than most other tubes, but so what? How many tubes are you using? What is the reflector like? How far from the plants? What is the coating spectrum? What light/dark periods? Were the soil, watering, feeding, etc. identical? The outside conditions?

The fact is that no one with a life has done and published controlled experiments of this type. Why? Because it's pointless! The physics are well understood.

Now if money is no object, then you are barking up the wrong tree. Buy a ceramic metal-oxide lamp, ballast, and fixture -- or several -- and go to town. Will they make a difference? Probably some, but enough to remark? Probably not.

I am only trying to get at the facts, and hearing from some people who have used both types could hopefully share their own experience with this observation.

By your own statement, you already have. Obviously you are convinced, so why are you asking again?

I do realize that the wind is another factor, but to some extent a fan blowing across the seedlings helps with this conditioning to some degree. Now temperature fluctuations is another matter.

See Worth above.

But don't you think it possible the more intense (and hot) light prepares them for the sun intensity more?

Did I not already answer this? NO.

_______________

FYI, I'm currently using 4' 4-tube T8 fixtures over my starting flats. Seedlings emerge, audibly sigh, and spread their little leaves. No stretching for the light, just nice dark foliage. When they go outside into bright late-winter sun, they get beat up by the wind and toasted by the sun (direct sun is brighter than any artificial light) for an hour, then they come in until the next day (or two). Longer the next cycle. And so it goes.

[carolyn137]

I didn't go back to the start of this thread but it sure is getting more technical than I ever thought it would.

When I was in Denver that was the first time I had to grow my own seedlings at my home and I bought a very large light rack with 4 trays and started out buying expensive bulbs,which I found wasn't necessary at all.

When I moved back East I had that one sent and bought another one not as long and switched to one warm (pink)and one cold (white) and that's what I stayed with and I could raise and lower the lights as needed as the seedlings grew.

When they were about 3-4 inches tall they were potted up to plastic 6 packs and then put outside to harden off before setting out.

I can't see anyone hardening off under lights' b/c the whole purpose of hardening off is to gradually expose the plants to outside conditions.As in take them to shelter if heavy rain or wind was expected,slowly harden them off from full shade to more and more sunlight. I took at least a full week to harden them off.

Of course there were always unexpected stuff that happened,so you could get sunburn,broken branches from hgh winds, critter damage,etc.

But I just have a hard time seeing why all the T thises and that'ses when perhaps not needed.

Just my opinion,of course.

Carolyn

[dmforcier]

We pretty much agree. The only reasons to worry about "all the T thises and that'ses" is that the newer fluorescent specs (T8 and T5) use less electricity for the same light output, and have narrower tubes so you could cram more into the same space.




I will not use the term "suburban myth".

[SharonRossy]

I use T5 lighting and for me it's fantastic. I'm growing a small amount of tomato seedlings and have had great luck vs CFL but I'm still learning the ropes. It's true you have to make sure the amount of light is adequate for the number of plants and yes T5 lights are pricey but it was a neater set up for me.
In terms of hardening off as others have said it depends where you live. In my zone 5 I have to harden off slowly. Too much fluctuations in temperature and wind. And I use a fan to keep my seedlings strong. But outdoor conditions are very different from indoor conditions.

[salix]

Worth, we live in such different climates! When I start hardening off, the babies go under the walkway on the north side of the house (more light in the outdoor shade than any lights inside, right?) Depending on the direction of the wind, they get shifted around from place to place where there is shelter from the wind and sun for a few days. It's always different, every day is a new adventure, but I've only ever lost 1 plant in the hardening off process. And that was because I accidently left a mini-greenhouse outside for over 8 hours in subzero temperatures. All of the tomatoes looked like toast, but left alone in the dark garage with a shot of weak kelp fertilizer revived 71 out of 72. Have even had flats in little mini-greenhouses in the sun with two inches of snow on the ground and big snowbanks around in a late spring - hey, I run out of room in the basement and garage sometimes! Up here they gotta get tough in a hurry.

[schill93]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

I use T5 lighting and for me it's fantastic. I'm growing a small amount of tomato seedlings and have had great luck vs CFL but I'm still learning the ropes. It's true you have to make sure the amount of light is adequate for the number of plants and yes T5 lights are pricey but it was a neater set up for me.
In terms of hardening off as others have said it depends where you live. In my zone 5 I have to harden off slowly. Too much fluctuations in temperature and wind. And I use a fan to keep my seedlings strong. But outdoor conditions are very different from indoor conditions.

Sharon Rossy: Which lights did you wind up buying. Not sure if you have the same mfg. up there that we do here. I have been trying to decide which ones to get.

I don't think they are that much more expensive actually. A 4 light T8 fixture here runs about $50 at Home Depot or Lowes. Some can run as high as $100. T8 bulbs are around $3.00 each in a ten pack. So your cost for a new T8 4 light setup with bulbs would be $62. So the question then becomes, is it worth $38 - $53 more for the T5 setup? There must be tangible benefits to warrant the extra cost, yes?

You can buy some T5 fixtures with 4 lights for less than $100, which comes with the bulbs or one of the better name brand ones for $116. Also, you don't have to change the bulbs out each season like you do with the T8's. You can also buy the T5's with 6 or 8 bulbs, which is great if you have the room.

[SharonRossy]

schill93 - I bought the Sunblaster 4' & 3' T5 HO with the Nano Tech reflector. It's been two years now and I think each light maybe was at least $25 plus the cost of the reflector- so maybe $45 in all for one light + reflector but I might be on the high side. Each of my units currently has 3 of each - I probably should have had 4 per unit -I can add up to seven per unit, but I plan on cutting back on the number of seedlings next year and the hydroponic store told me I was fine with 3 lights each. I wanted to add a fourth and I may for next season. The lighting was amazing - I just had to figure out optimal hours - the first year I had the lights on too long - 18 hours and the plants grew fast and I had started them too early. This last year, I did a better job of planning starting the seedlings and keeping the lights low. But even then, given my climate, one week later would have been even better.
As far as I can tell, the lights are holding up. My plan is to bring the whole structure in to have them add the additional light and check to see that the others are working at optimal capacity. At the time I bought them, I was only able to find them in hydroponic stores or online. Home Depot did not carry them here. I am not an expert in this - if you had seen what I was using before, it was a miracle my plants grew. I had all types of CFL lights screwed into lamps and arranged so the light would be over the trays. It was quite a seen. This set up is so neat and effective for me.

[peppero]

I have used the shop lights for years and have grown many plants. Because it works I will keep on using them . It makes dollars and sense to me.

Jon

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by schill93

Also, you don't have to change the bulbs out each season like you do with the T8's.

Looks like you got ahold of another suburban myth.

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by peppero

I have used the shop lights for years and have grown many plants. Because it works I will keep on using them . It makes dollars and sense to me.

I used T12s for a long time too. Plants did fine, though tended to be a little leggier than with my current setup. One good thing about the big T12 tubes is that they run cooler so safely can be in contact with the tender leafage. Toward the end of the starting season I would have a tube or two submerged in plants, getting strong light to the lower foliage.

[schill93]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

schill93 - I bought the Sunblaster 4' & 3' T5 HO with the Nano Tech reflector. It's been two years now and I think each light maybe was at least $25 plus the cost of the reflector- so maybe $45 in all for one light + reflector but I might be on the high side. Each of my units currently has 3 of each - I probably should have had 4 per unit -I can add up to seven per unit, but I plan on cutting back on the number of seedlings next year and the hydroponic store told me I was fine with 3 lights each. I wanted to add a fourth and I may for next season. The lighting was amazing - I just had to figure out optimal hours - the first year I had the lights on too long - 18 hours and the plants grew fast and I had started them too early. This last year, I did a better job of planning starting the seedlings and keeping the lights low. But even then, given my climate, one week later would have been even better.
As far as I can tell, the lights are holding up. My plan is to bring the whole structure in to have them add the additional light and check to see that the others are working at optimal capacity. At the time I bought them, I was only able to find them in hydroponic stores or online. Home Depot did not carry them here. I am not an expert in this - if you had seen what I was using before, it was a miracle my plants grew. I had all types of CFL lights screwed into lamps and arranged so the light would be over the trays. It was quite a seen. This set up is so neat and effective for me.

Funny, I bet it was a sight to see. I am doing similar right now as my shelving unit is still not set up yet, as we have furniture to move out and get rid of first.
How long were your seedlings under lights this year before you put them out?

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Looks like you got ahold of another suburban myth.

Which are you referring to? Don't have to change out the T8's seasonally or don't have to change out the T5's?

Originally Posted by dmforcier

I used T12s for a long time too. Plants did fine, though tended to be a little leggier than with my current setup. One good thing about the big T12 tubes is that they run cooler so safely can be in contact with the tender leafage. Toward the end of the starting season I would have a tube or two submerged in plants, getting strong light to the lower foliage.

Dmforcier, I know that the T8's work just fine. I am just trying to ascertain any added benefit of using T5's. Many people on line have stated they love them. Just not to many explanations why. Here's a write up on it.
http://plantozoid.com/t5-grow-lights...2014/#T5_Vs_T8

[dmforcier]

Which are you referring to? Don't have to change out the T8's seasonally or don't have to change out the T5's?

You don't have to change out anything seasonally. Certainly not with the wide spectra of fluorescents.

But back up past that. The whole notion that plants require different spectra at different times is basically bogus. It comes from pot growers who are pressing for unnatural effects (e.g. delayed or heavy flowering) under artificial conditions. Since most garden lighting has been developed for pot growers, the concept has leaked over to growers of other types of veg.

Reality check: Does the sun change color seasonally?

[murihikukid]

Hi...Are these any good for plants????

100% Brand new and high quality
This bulb with transparent cover, can use for outdoor,
Low consumption and high brightness
Long service life, as three to four times long as normal halogen lamps
Suitable for office, exhibition or home use
Input Voltage: AC110V
Power Consumption: 7W
Screw in E27 base
LED type: 36 5630 5730 SMD
Luminous flux: 1000LM
Light color: Cool White(6000K-6500K)
please choose you color temperature you want
Dimension:95mm*30mm
MaterialC

Thanks Ron