DANIEL BURSON 2016

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by MissS

I do believe that tnpeppers will still be participating in this thread. Gary is Tormato and runs the Mostly Mystery Mater Mailing every year here at Tville. He like Carolyn is not the source of the seeds but rather just a distributor. He does a great job of it too. As the name of the swap implies, who the seeds are from are a mystery. I sent some into the 2015 MMMM swap. My seeds are not those that tnpepper has grown. He got his seeds just as I did in 2014. Most likely we have gotten them from the same source. Just to be certain, I did purchase one of his seed packs off of eBay so that I can compare his plants next to mine. I was hoping that Carolyn would have had her seed offer open so that I could also compare yours to mine. The seeds that I distributed are F7. This years crop will produce F8.

Let me point out a huge difference in Gary's swap and my seed offers.

The seeds I offer are produced by very experienced tomato growers, since after I fell and could no longer grow and do my seed production I looked to some of my long time SSE friends for help.

They were glad to do it since after sending me back seeds for the offer they could then list them in the SSE Yearbooks,which was a big plus for them.

One person in IL SSE lists about 400 varieties each year,one in WI lists more than that, and I've known both since the early 90's,one in WNYState,I can 't remember how many she listed,and one in NC, not an SSE member but a long time friend.

Three of those I've known since the early 90's and we used to trade seeds back and forth, as in my best to the others and then the reciprocal. If they say they like a new variety,I know I will as well. That's how well we know each other.

Of the seeds I offer most of them come from my own seed producers,now up to 7,since I had so many new varieties to be grown out this summer and perhaps you saw my thread in the offtopic forum where I asked for some volunteers to help out.And then some from some well known commercial seed vendors, and then some already produced from friends in various other countries.

The spread sheet that was put up for seed distribution to seed producers for this summer has 47 new varieties and one seed producer's name is not there since he's doing seed production for most of the ones I got from Ilex in Spain, and that brings it up to close to 60 new varieties. I was the one with seeds and it was very difficult packing up those seeds for each person,especially since there were duplicate requests for many of them.

The last time anything that I listed didn't work out, as to being what it should be was when I was offering Pervaya Lyubov and ONE person got an off type and that after I'd distributed over maybe 1,000 seeds.

With Gary's swap he doesn't personally know all those who send in seeds,how could he, and so there have been lots of offtypes,which is why each year he puts up what I call a wrong variety thread for folks to report back what was wrong with varieties they got in the swap by backtracking to see who sent those seeds.

And just to be clear,Gary and I have known each other for many many years,way before he started doing his swap.

It goes back to this not stable variety one

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Kardia_Karpos

He sent me seeds to offer maybe over 10 years ago,or so, and indeed it was not stable.

So Gary and I are in no way strangers to each other.

I hope that I've clarified the differences in the seeds I offer and who does the seed production as opposed to what Gary offers in his swap,where he doesn't really know the majority of folks who send in seeds. And they do so b'c they like to get back all the varieties ,as to categories they've chosen, lots of surprises,of course,but lots of fun as well.

Lastly,you wrote above

(I was hoping that Carolyn would have had her seed offer open so that I could also compare yours to mine. The seeds that I distributed are F7. This years crop will produce F8.)

I was hoping that as well,but I'm sure you saw the thread I started in General Discussion explaining why the offer wouldn't go up until late summer or early Fall.

Just being brief here.

After dealing with all that went on with the 7 seed producers,it was too late to get seeds out in a seed offer for this summer growout.

There were some medical issues involved that I won't go into.

I still had seeds to send out to the several commercial companies that I do each year for them to trial as well as seeds promised to others for various reasons/

And I could only do that,and still am,while I had the seeds here before I send them to Shawn in VTwho is taking over the hard part of my seed offers.

The seeds I offered from Travis in that 2012 offer were stable as reported back,I linked to that Fall perfomrance thread for you. The seeds I now have from Travis are F6, but you have indicated that the seeds you have are F8 and have some different traits, you detailed them,I've forgotten the specifics, but why would that happen anyway if it was stable in 2012, and presumably with the F6 as well?

About all I can think of right now is subtle mutation,which can occur and does,as well as selection from fruits of a plant where that has happened.

Ah, sweet mysteries of life,etc, the song goes, at last I've found you,meaning the mysteries, or something like that,but as for me and my tribe,generically human,nearing 77 each day is a mystery to me that I'm still relatively alive.

Carolyn

[ContainerTed]

I don't like doing this, and even if it costs me my membership here, I can't be silent.

Carolyn, why would you suggest that the quality of the Daniel Burson seed that MissS has generously given away is of lesser quality than that which you have to give away? I have no problem with the quality of the seed that I received from MissS. Your post (#121) rings of an unsubstantiated put-down to the integrity of a Tomatoville member, and I think as a Global Moderator, you already know that it is not appropriate for this website. I think you now owe two people an apology.

[BigVanVader]

This thread keeps getting off track and a little argumentative, why don't we just wait until we see the fruits of our labor before we decide if there is any difference in the seed or not, even then I'm pretty sure nobody will really care since we are all here because we love growing tomatoes.

[ContainerTed]

Van, sounds weird, but I agree. I thought we were done and then .......

[MissS]

BAM....................

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I don't like doing this, and even if it costs me my membership here, I can't be silent.

Carolyn, why would you suggest that the quality of the Daniel Burson seed that MissS has generously given away is of lesser quality than that which you have to give away? I have no problem with the quality of the seed that I received from MissS. Your post (#121) rings of an unsubstantiated put-down to the integrity of a Tomatoville member, and I think as a Global Moderator, you already know that it is not appropriate for this website. I think you now owe two people an apology.

Ted,in no way at all was I suggesting that the QUALITY of what Patti was offering was wrong,please go back and read more carefully what I said.

She had said that her F8 seed plants had traits that were different, and described those traits,and I was SUGGESTING that might be very true, and said that subtle mutations could and do happen and if selection for seeds from the fruits of those plants that had those differences were done that could explain the differences she had noted.

At NO time did I question her INTEGRITY as you said I had done and I'm sure Patti knows that as well.

Carolyn ,who thinks it may be getting close to the time when she should not try to offer help/suggestions,background histories and so much more to anyone as a way of trying to help. But Carolyn knows Carolyn better than anyone else,and her background in teaching and tomato growing, etc.,probably would not allow her to do that.Lastly,this has nothing to do with my being a Global Moderator,and you know that as well since for many decades,thats what I was,a tomato grower and grower of lots of other stuff as well,before ever being called a Global Mod, and that happened first at another site,not here at Tville, but at another site, actually two other sites now that she thinks about it. Time will tell.

[ContainerTed]

At this point, if I have offended anyone with any of my posts in this thread, I offer my most sincere apologies. I tried to do the right thing, but I guess I failed to get it done.

[MissS]

Ted, you are just fine.

I hate having to say all of this but allow me to say my point of view:

I am rather appalled at what has been happening here to this little performance thread. This tomato is sure getting some recognition. I am getting even more requests for it and tnpeppers hits for it on eBay are off the charts.

Thank you Carolyn for your dissertation on the differences between Gary's MMMM and your seed offer. I NEVER stated that they were alike. I was merely stating WHO Gary was because Bill did not know. Gary is not the grower of the seeds but merely a distributor of seeds sent to him by others for purposes of trades. As stated, growers are a mystery and are unknown sources.

I do understand all that you have been through and the reasons why your offer has been postponed. In fact, I was going to contact you myself and offer to help you with your seed offer until I saw you post that it was going to be happening this August or so.

My seeds are F7. I do not see anywhere on Tville where I have stated that they were F8. In fact until yesterday, I never said what generation they were. Last year was my first experience with them and it was great. With all of the fuss in this thread, I am not comfortable disclosing my seed
source. I have NEVER stated that my seeds have some different traits than what Travis intended. When I spoke (by PM) with Bill last fall, he did not indicate that my plants were not true to type. He did not object to me sharing my seeds. I am NOT the only seed source for Daniel Burson around. Since this thread has begun I am aware of 5 others who have been trading these seeds. Those are just those that I am aware of, I am sure that there are others as well.

You are the person that introduced these seeds, you should be proud of that.You had Daniel Burson offered in your experimental section. Your experiment showed that Daniel Burson was stable at that time. (See page #1 post #3 of this thread.) You also indicated that all was known about this tomato and that the differences noted from various grow outs was due to weather and soil, etc. (See post #12 of this thread).

Now Bill's thread #107 is a bit of a mystery to me as well... I am not the "Patti" that he is referring to. He must have me confused with someone else. I do not know any person named Timothy and do not grow seeds with him. I have PM'd Bill about this, but I have heard nothing back.

Bill first contacted me by PM here at Tville when he saw in a post that I had made that I was growing Daniel Burson. I believe it was last August or September. (He can check his inbox here to find our exchanges as I have done in mine.) We spoke via PM's about this tomato. What my plants were like and the history behind it. I offered him some seeds and he said that he would like them to compare to what he had. I sent him some seed and in return he sent me several varieties back. I also offered to give this tomato some publicity as I thought that it deserved to be grown by more people and he did not state that he would mind if I in fact did that.

The fact is that the seed that I am offering is from the seed that you released in 2012 and is named "Daniel Burson" by your own statements. I have grown it as carefully as possible
and have made great effort to keep it true to Bill's type. Is it? I guess that you would have to grow it to find out. Last year was my first season, it could have been out-crossed prior to me getting
it. It has been traded around for the past three years. What I and others are offering is what is now known as "Daniel Burson". Furthermore, you now state that you have a new version of "Daniel Burson" to release that has been stabilized by Bill himself. That's wonderful! Except that you have already released a tomato named "Daniel Burson." May I suggest that you call this a sister line and give it another name if you believe that it is different tomato than that which you already have put into circulation. Having you release two versions of "Daniel Burson" is going to be quite confusing.

Now could we please STOP all of this arguing????? We have dealt with sales and popularity, witch-hunts, questions of morals and integrity and all matters of kinds of things. Please refer to post #1 of this thread and learn what the thread is here for. I am just about ready to ask Mischka to remove this entire thread!!!

I am just about at my wits end and am considering withdrawing myself from this thread.

[BigVanVader]

Amen, I just want to see DB pics and taste ratings

[jillian]

Wow, I am still a newbie here but I must say "respectfully" that I agree with ContainerTed and MissS. Went through the entire thread and it is very easy to see when and where the thread went haywire. I am way less knowledgeable than most folks here and consider it a privilege to be able to glean and learn and share experiences. What has happened in this thread could possibly make one hesitant to post, lest it be misread or misconstrued.

Just my 2 cents worth, for what it is worth.

Jillian

[ginger2778]

I grew it from Carolyn's 2012 seed offer, 2 plants, both with potato leaves and gorgeous Cherokee Purple colored large fruit. Both with no differences that I could tell. Moderate production, but the flavor was so excellent that they were in my garden 3 years in a row. Mine did have some dimpling inward at the blossom end, like an "inny" belly button. I never give a 10 for flavor, but this was a 9.9!

Patti, and Ted, I think you both are fabulous. Thank you for your generosity and all you both do.

[ContainerTed]

Here's one of my plants. I have to admit that I'm anxious about getting it thru to tasting time.

Marsha, I think you're pretty cool, too!

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I grew it from Carolyn's 2012 seed offer, 2 plants, both with potato leaves and gorgeous Cherokee Purple colored large fruit. Both with no differences that I could tell. Moderate production, but the flavor was so excellent that they were in my garden 3 years in a row. Mine did have some dimpling inward at the blossom end, like an "inny" belly button. I never give a 10 for flavor, but this was a 9.9!

Patti, and Ted, I think you both are fabulous. Thank you for your generosity and all you both do.

Now I REALLY cant wait to try!

[jillian]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I grew it from Carolyn's 2012 seed offer, 2 plants, both with potato leaves and gorgeous Cherokee Purple colored large fruit. Both with no differences that I could tell. Moderate production, but the flavor was so excellent that they were in my garden 3 years in a row. Mine did have some dimpling inward at the blossom end, like an "inny" belly button. I never give a 10 for flavor, but this was a 9.9!

Patti, and Ted, I think you both are fabulous. Thank you for your generosity and all you both do.

Marsha, I knew you really loved this tomato which is why I was thrilled by MissS's generous offer, thanks again MissS!

I intend to take pics of my plants this weekend, I will post DB here!

[MissS]

Thank you everyone. This is what Tomatoville is all about. Friendship and sharing.

I too grew it based on Marsha's high ratings. I rank the flavor just like Marsha, a 9.9 which is why I offered it. Mine did not have the belly button and had great production. Maybe a temperature thing, maybe it's not stable yet. That's part of what this thread is all about........