A community designed to produce its own food

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by imp

To get back to the OP idea, I am interested in watching how this plays out over a few years time. I do like that there are more reasonable remarks in the article acknowledging that not all the communities, even the planned only ones so far, will not be producing all their own foods for the most part. Some of the ideas seem to all rest on a balance point, so I am wondering if there is a failure of one system as to how it would affect the rest of the systems and community, though.

Originally Posted by bower

I must admit I'm a bit skeptical when I look at those pictures and really don't see anyone doing any dirty work.

I think we need to get away from the idea that this is a commune.

Here's an in-depth article about this concept and the philosophies around it.

“ReGen Villages then stays involved inside each community as a management company – where all of the systems are managed by us as a concierge level of services for a monthly fee,” he adds. “However, if any resident wishes to volunteer inside a ReGen Village, either in the garden areas or other aspects of the community, we will deduct this volunteer effort from their [partner’s] monthly fees.”

The article also makes it clear that the private gardens inside people's glass "enclosures" are optional--they can do what they want with that space, but the community doesn't rely on them to produce food in them. It's no different than any other yard, only this time, it's enclosed in glass so that you can have a family garden for more months out of the year in the NL if you choose. They feature prominently in the photos probably because gardening is the new black right now--very trendy among the well-to-do and young professionals. I know many people who live in cities who would consider moving to the suburbs for the sole reason that they would want a kitchen garden, but they don't want the suburban lifestyle, including its inherent high resource usage.

The community's food would be grown in dedicated spaces for it and presumably primarily tended by people whose job it is to do so.

It also makes it clear that the glass house concept is climate-specific. The company does not envision the same for hot climates for obvious reasons. Maybe in more equatorial areas, the designs would include large shade structures that in dry areas would also include rainwater collection systems, etc.

It's more of a framework, not a set design.

For me, having lived almost all of my adult life in big cities, it's not such an alien concept to share living infrastructure with others but have dedicated people maintain certain common systems, like a super or a concierge or management company which is paid for by your rent, a maintenance free, coop dues, etc. In a way, this idea just takes things a little further, with those systems including things like food and energy production and incorporating architecture that actively encourages socializing with one's neighbors (something that city apartment living doesn't have for the most part right now).

This sort of structural interconnectedness may be much more alien to many suburban Americans, and maybe that's why so many people are jumping straight to the conclusion that this will be a hippie commune work camp instead of imagining different ways to incorporate more communality in less extreme ways.

[Worth1]

I dont get it.
The title of the thread is called A community designed to produce its own food.
Who is going to do the work?
Who is going to kill the critters cut the steaks gather the eggs milk the cows make the cheese weed the garden clean the house and fix the plumbing.
If not the rich that live there then who.
If they dont do it then they will have to get outside labor.
That labor will live someplace else and use energy there as well as use it to get to work.
This I think would blow the carbon foot print out of the water.
Last I heard and have seen there is no way in the world you are going to get most of the people in the US rich or poor to milk a cow much less slaughter one.
I never said the rich didn't have a good work ethic they get up and work every day like the rest of us.
Hell I am considered rich to some people.

They just dont know how to do the kind of work involved in doing what is required to live in that type of community.
Some people will jump on it most wont.
Most will stay in the places they already have and go to the store or have the servant go for them.

One of the best things that could ever happen at least in the US is to stop going to work.
A vast portion of the workers can just stay at home and work.
All of their work is on a computer anyway and they dont see anyone.
They are emailing people next to them for crying out loud, I know I have done it.

Worth

[Worth1]

Okay now I get it there is the management company that take in dues AKA profit.
Out of the profit they pay workers to come in and do the work.
The people that live there can work if they want.
Most wont but they will hoo and haw about the self sustainable community they live in.
Plus there are rules to go by made up by a group that more than likely will step on the Constitution in some way or another.
You signed on.

Sounds great for a city person even heaven, not worth a hoot for this country boy.

Worth

[bower]

That's a helpful link, Gorbelly.
The concierge as deus ex machina, will make it happen.
Also the people who do the work might end up living there too... if the government agrees to subsidize housing inside.
“Additionally we are looking very closely at a combination of purchasing, renting and term-lease options that will also include both affordable housing schemes and some portion of government subsidized living arrangements within each community structure,” ReGen Villages’ CEO says.

I'm sure ReGen is not bringing in the lower class residents to liven up the place with drunken brawls and all night card games.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by bower

That's a helpful link, Gorbelly.
The concierge as deus ex machina, will make it happen.
Also the people who do the work might end up living there too... if the government agrees to subsidize housing inside.
“Additionally we are looking very closely at a combination of purchasing, renting and term-lease options that will also include both affordable housing schemes and some portion of government subsidized living arrangements within each community structure,” ReGen Villages’ CEO says.

I'm sure ReGen is not bringing in the lower class residents to liven up the place with drunken brawls and all night card games.

The rich have drunken brawls and all night card games.
Plus sometimes Key Clubs.

Worth

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Okay now I get it there is the management company that take in dues AKA profit.

There's nothing inherently wrong with profit.

Originally Posted by Worth1

Out of the profit they pay workers to come in and do the work.

Or maybe the workers live there, too, if they want?

Originally Posted by Worth1

The people that live there can work if they want.
Most wont but they will hoo and haw about the self sustainable community they live in.

But who cares if they "hoo and haw" if the idea works and the community is actually better for the environment than a traditional suburb? Unless you're hung up on the idea of superiority or feel like there's some kind of a contest with these folks, it doesn't matter how great they feel about themselves or how much that bothers you or me or anyone else. Bottom line: is it a better way of planning a suburb? What will we learn out of this experience? The way I see it, even if it fails, there's a lot to be learned and gained from the fact that someone is willing to attempt this, as long as it's done in a society that is forward-looking and not secretly looking for a reason to discredit the idea of more sustainable lifestyles and therefore looking for such projects to fail.

Besides, I can see a place like that being a big draw for people who already telecommute, of which there are many and in increasing numbers. There's a big service sector and lots of tech in the NL. I can see something like this working well for people from those sectors. And those people might well want to put in time working in communal gardens or taking care of chickens.

Originally Posted by Worth1

Plus there are rules to go by made up by a group that more than likely will step on the Constitution in some way or another.

Like what? What violations of the Dutch constitution do you expect will happen, and how do you expect such violations will be permitted by Dutch society and culture? I am particularly interested in your answer here.

Originally Posted by Worth1

You signed on.

??? Not sure what this refers to.

Originally Posted by Worth1

Sounds great for a city person even heaven, not worth a hoot for this country boy.

Sounds like a solution for which there's a good fit among some people in Western societies. Doesn't have to a total solution, so I'm not sure why so many of us are acting like it's going to be forcibly imposed on the entirety of society.

Nobody says you have to sign on, Worth. We all know you consider your way of life superior to everyone else's. And it's great that you love it and enjoy it. I'm sure country life is wonderful in many ways, and while it may not be a good fit for all of us, there's certainly no reason not to celebrate it as a lifestyle.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But maybe some of us like to think in terms of the wider society and globally, and don't think that various solutions for the world's middle classes are a frivolous thing to think about or brainstorm and trial.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by bower

That's a helpful link, Gorbelly.
The concierge as deus ex machina, will make it happen.

Well, a concierge is hardly a deus ex machina. Concierges do exist, and they do solve the problem of taking care of communal tasks in an equitable way without having to deal with the instabilities of cooperative volunteer work.

Originally Posted by bower

Also the people who do the work might end up living there too... if the government agrees to subsidize housing inside.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking.

Originally Posted by bower

[/I]I'm sure ReGen is not bringing in the lower class residents to liven up the place with drunken brawls and all night card games.

A lot of European countries have the expectation of real working wages for non-professional-class people.

It's funny to me when people who visit France complain about the surly service they get in shops and restaurants. Because it's not surly--it's simply not servile, which is what people are used to in countries like the USA. And that's because a waiter at a café in France is earning a living wage and isn't reliant on tips for survival. His concern is doing his job well and pleasing his boss, not ingratiating himself to you so that you will leave him money based on how inspired you are to be generous. There's illegal under-the-table work everywhere, but unlike in the US, above-board work is much more likely to pay something people can actually live on.

[bower]

I had a look at some other communities linked in the article you linked above - there's one in Germany, in Dubai, in Gatineau (Canada) and another I think.. anyway, the real focus which they have in common is waste and energy management. Which is great, for sure. And you're right they are models for future urban development which is more sustainable.
Of course they are trendsetting, and a big status symbol to be part of it, but as you said who cares, if it benefits the environment why not, kudos to the takers.

I think the Dutch example has a greater focus on food and I like that. The other pix I saw were multistorey apartment type buildings with solar panel roofs (yawn) and throw in a few greenspaces and a biogas plant you're done. Very urban environments, and the food aspect is background at best from what I saw.

I agree with Worth, no place for country boy or girl. Don't be upset that it's not that relevant for some of us farmers and gardeners here.

[greenthumbomaha]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

Since the ReGen community idea isn't about tomatoes, it probably should have gone in 2cents worth.

Who do I contact to see whether it can be moved?

When I encounter stuff that I don't want to discuss or read about, I stop reading. Maybe you will find that tip helpful!

gorbelly,
I agree with the "tip" for anyone that doesn't want to read a carefully thought out post to move along. Nothing harmful or derogatory was said. These are the kind of posts "I" want to see.

I land on tville often just to hear the views of others on a variety of subjects without judging anyone. We are all here to learn.

I appreciate the effort put forth when someone has done research and presents the data, circumstances. sources and offers comments that inspire participation and discussion.

- Lisa

I will describe a local concept for a community farm in a later post

[bower]

One thing I find intriguing is that they're creating relatively small, modular 'self-waste-energy-managing' community infrastructure. This makes the people who purchase it also owners of any surplus energy production.
Just thinking about the economics of it, vs creating waste to energy facilities for whole cities. In that case the private ownership goes to the city.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by bower

I agree with Worth, no place for country boy or girl. Don't be upset that it's not that relevant for some of us farmers and gardeners here.

Oh, I'm not upset if people don't find it relevant. I guess I'm more discouraged at how quick people have been to disparage the entire concept of something like this simply because they prefer their current lifestyle or because they don't like the kind of people they imagine will live in a place like this.

While I currently live in a suburb for various reasons, it's not my preferred lifestyle. I'd rather live packed like a sardine in the city, though I'd ideally love a sunny apartment, balcony, or rooftop access to grow some stuff.

My #2 preference would actually be (brace yourself for shock) an off-grid life way out in the country. I love wildlife and nature, even and maybe especially the creepy crawly and nuisance stuff that most people hate. And despite the stereotypes about city folk, I'm not squeamish about the realities of eating meat and have butchered things and dealt with what it means to cause death to eat, etc.

I really, really dislike suburban life. I don't hate it quite as much now that I'm older as I did growing up, but I'm far from loving it. My garden is a huge comfort to me, though.

But I still am rooting for people to figure out ways to make something like this "green suburb" work because I think the world needs it as part of a larger plan to make the planet more livable for longer.

[Worth1]

Gorbelly I am not downing it you have thought this all along.
I am a trouble shooter and look for problems before they occur.
Not only that I fix those problems.
By living with my feet in both words rich and poor I know how people think.
Like I said one of my dreams is for a real community.
I just dont think going corporate is the way to go.
What this is is in some ways is just a paid for small town USA if you think about it.
Done so with taxes not dues priced to keep out the poor and crime.
Not a big deal but a reality.
If it makes these people feel good then so be it but I do have a right to an opinion.
And not be insulted which I feel I have.
At no time did I ever say hippie commune.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Gorbelly I am not downing it you have thought this all along.
I am a trouble shooter and look for problems before they occur.
Not only that I fix those problems.
By living with my feet in both words rich and poor I know how people think.
Like I said one of my dreams is for a real community.
I just dont think going corporate is the way to go.
What this is is in some ways is just a paid for small town USA if you think about it.
Done so with taxes not dues priced to keep out the poor and crime.
Not a big deal but a reality.
If it makes these people feel good then so be it but I do have a right to an opinion.
And not be insulted which I feel I have.
At no time did I ever say hippie commune.

It's not in the USA, though. I look forward to seeing what a more equitable society does with the idea.

In the end, it still benefits the planet if people are consuming fewer resources and burdening the environment with less waste. It doesn't have to directly benefit the people I can see when I look out my window or even any Americans at all for me to think it might be worth trying. I'm sure the expectation is that there will be problems which will need to be "shot". The Dutch are not a culture that is prone to believing in quick fixes, magic pills, and silver bullets.

[bower]

Gorbelly,

I do think you read too much into people's comments, that you feel they are negative or disparaging the whole concept, when really it is a matter of thinking critically about the underlying issue and being constructive, we are all learning something in the process.

As Worth said exactly, trouble shooting is the type of conversation, maybe in the process we might find a model that is better.

Of course it is an interesting concept and this is why there's been so much discussion.

[Worth1]

The dutch and the rest of Europe already use less energy than the US and China per capita.
What I am concerned about is here and how something like this could work here.
One of our problems is the lack of the right kind of transportation.
The other is huge energy sucking houses people live in.
They dont build affordable single family starter homes anymore.
I am probably one of the greenest self sufficient people around without even trying.
Right now my concerns are farm land energy and water.
If we dont get a handle on it in 100 years people will be killing each other.
You can take that to the bank.
Worth