Expensive Hybrid Seed

Cole_Robbie · October 8, 2015

I'm looking at Johnny's Seeds web site, and they have a large selection of 15-seed packets for $10-20.

Has anyone here shelled out the big bucks for a packet of seed and been happy with their purchase? I'm trying to avoid firm, bland tomatoes, even if they do keep and sell well.

Bipetual · October 9, 2015

I bought seeds resistant to certain diseases from Johnny's and I regretted it. I don't have room for many plants, so when the Climstar and Caiman F1's were hard and didn't have much taste and had poor interior color, I was pretty disgusted with my decision. The Granadero pastes were a little better, but not much. Clearly these varieties were not bred for taste. We wound up eating more cherries than anything this year. It's not so much the expense that bugs me so much as all the wasted time and effort. The Golden Sweet F1 grape tomatoes I got from them were pretty good, though, and lasted really long after picking. We also enjoyed the Dunja F1 zucchini, too. Overall, though, I would have been better off with a pack of old Jet Star seeds from a few years ago.

Maybe you could split a few packs with another grower, or ask around about particular varieties you're interested in? At least you grow many different varieties, so if a few of them disappoint, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

kurt · October 9, 2015

They have great selections and product.But their shipping costs by dollar amount versus weight is kinda lopsided.For two packs of seeds I like to order($6.95/15 seeds per) it costs a arm and two legs.Blister pack at 49cents,stamp at 49cents,labor to select and pack?Their BHN seeds do really well for us and tastes,germinations and the fact BHN is Florida sourced,tested, grown makes them our selection.

Standard Shipping Charges
Order Subtotal Add Shipping Charges
$ 0.01–10.00
$ 4.00
$ 10.01–30.00
$ 6.75
$ 30.01–50.00
$ 10.00
$ 50.01–100.00
$ 12.25
$ 100.01–200.00
$ 16.00
$ 200.01 +
FREE *

Gerardo · October 9, 2015

Margold, Marnero, and Santorange at 20 per packet, Rebelski at 19, so that's more than a dollar per seed.

Do they possess that much mojo to justify this pricing? The seeds that is, not the company. Most others hover around the $4-6 range. Why 4x the price? Are they really that productive, with loads of uniform, market ready product? Disease resistant?

I don't get it. Can someone please help me wrap my head around hybrid pricing schemes?

Fred Hempel · October 9, 2015

I think Granadero is fantastic. If you really let it ripen, it has really nice flavor. It is also productive and there is virtually zero loss from bruising.

Granadero also is a paste tomato, and it works very well as one.

I think it is unfair to compare Granadero to Cherokee Purple for flavor. It is a completely different class of tomato.

San Marzano is very boring fresh, but it is a fantastic paste tomato. Apples and Oranges.

Ricky Shaw · October 9, 2015

I had read this a while back on the Hydro Gardens site and found it interesting.

Are there seeds that are bred to be used for hydroponics or can you use just any variety of tomato seeds?

I’m new to hydroponics and am wondering if it matters which seeds you choose to use when growing hydroponically? Are the tomato seeds that you offer aimed at greenhouse and commercial growers? I will be using my hydroponic system indoors. Can I just use seeds I already have left over from my outdoor gardening season? Are there seeds that are bred to be used for hydroponics or can you use just any variety of tomato seeds?
Thank you,
Cheryl M.
Dear Cheryl,
All of the seeds that we offer have been specially bred for greenhouse growing. They offer more disease resistance than garden variety seeds. They also have been bred for the gourmet market. Under controlled conditions, these varieties should have more uniform size, excellent appearance and flavor.
Plant breeding can take 20 years or more to get a variety to market. Usually, the variety is only on the market for a few years before a newer variety is released. The cost of all of the breeding must be recovered by the seed companies in only a few years. This is why the cost of our seeds are much higher than garden variety seeds.
Garden variety seeds can be used in small systems and they should grow OK. However, they may not have the disease resistance or the quality characteristics that you desire. A commercial grower would be placing their crop at risk of disease or poor quality by growing garden variety seeds. The larger the number of plants grown in an enclosed environment increases the odds of introducing a disease or fungus that could rapidly spread throughout their crop.
Sincerely,
Mike Morton President Hydro-Gardens

zipcode · October 9, 2015

Johnny's prices are too high, about 40% more than what you can find elsewhere, if you can find it. And that is the thing, they offer commercial hybrid seeds in small quantities, and there are very few places you can find them like that, or nowhere else, hence their high asking price.
Try UK for better prices on top cherry hybrid seeds.

Gerardo · October 9, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

I had read this a while back on the Hydro Gardens site and found it interesting.

Plant breeding can take 20 years or more to get a variety to market. Usually, the variety is only on the market for a few years before a newer variety is released. The cost of all of the breeding must be recovered by the seed companies in only a few years. This is why the cost of our seeds are much higher than garden variety seeds.

This sounds vaguely familiar...the big-pharma two step. 20 years? Pitch-drop speed breeding going on there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

Johnny's prices are too high, about 40% more than what you can find elsewhere, if you can find it. And that is the thing, they offer commercial hybrid seeds in small quantities, and there are very few places you can find them like that, or nowhere else, hence their high asking price.
Try UK for better prices on top cherry hybrid seeds.

I've noticed that some places selling hybrids have a 100 seed minimum, if at all, most of the time it's a bigger figure. The aliquot pricing is starting to make sense.

feldon30 · October 9, 2015

Look at the descriptions on a variety of websites, especially Tomato Growers Supply (if they carry it). If taste is not mentioned, it's probably along the lines of grocery store fodder.

Cole_Robbie · October 9, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

commercial hybrid seeds in small quantities, and there are very few places you can find them like that

I have noticed that a lot with bell peppers. For the latest and greatest hybrids, places like Seedway will make me buy a minimum of 500-1000 seeds just to try the variety.

zipcode · October 9, 2015

From my expensive cherry/grape trial from last year, that I posted about a few things, I can recommend Sungrape, fantastic strong taste, production was not as good for me as the others in the test however.

Cole_Robbie · October 9, 2015

I didn't know there was a Sungrape. It looks like a lot of work to pick.

I also didn't know there was a "Suncherry Premium"
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/veget...1-hybrid/504TM

Keger · October 9, 2015

I need about 1000 pounds of fodder a week

zipcode · October 11, 2015

Grape tomatoes are easier to pick than cherries, they are made to detach easily without calyx.

Gerardo · October 12, 2015

I've got some Rebelski on the way; need to grow them so I can formulate a valid opinion. Have a strong feeling I'll be happy with the end result.

October 8, 2015	#1
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Expensive Hybrid Seed I'm looking at Johnny's Seeds web site, and they have a large selection of 15-seed packets for $10-20. Has anyone here shelled out the big bucks for a packet of seed and been happy with their purchase? I'm trying to avoid firm, bland tomatoes, even if they do keep and sell well.

October 9, 2015	#3
kurt Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Homestead,Everglades City Fl. Posts: 2,500	They have great selections and product.But their shipping costs by dollar amount versus weight is kinda lopsided.For two packs of seeds I like to order($6.95/15 seeds per) it costs a arm and two legs.Blister pack at 49cents,stamp at 49cents,labor to select and pack?Their BHN seeds do really well for us and tastes,germinations and the fact BHN is Florida sourced,tested, grown makes them our selection. Standard Shipping Charges Order Subtotal Add Shipping Charges $ 0.01–10.00 $ 4.00 $ 10.01–30.00 $ 6.75 $ 30.01–50.00 $ 10.00 $ 50.01–100.00 $ 12.25 $ 100.01–200.00 $ 16.00 $ 200.01 + FREE * __________________ KURT Last edited by kurt; October 9, 2015 at 05:19 AM.

October 9, 2015	#9
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Look at the descriptions on a variety of websites, especially Tomato Growers Supply (if they carry it). If taste is not mentioned, it's probably along the lines of grocery store fodder. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

October 12, 2015	#15
Gerardo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Diego-Tijuana Posts: 2,598	I've got some Rebelski on the way; need to grow them so I can formulate a valid opinion. Have a strong feeling I'll be happy with the end result. Last edited by Gerardo; October 13, 2015 at 10:38 AM.

October 9, 2015	#2
Bipetual Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Illinois, zone 5a Posts: 579	I bought seeds resistant to certain diseases from Johnny's and I regretted it. I don't have room for many plants, so when the Climstar and Caiman F1's were hard and didn't have much taste and had poor interior color, I was pretty disgusted with my decision. The Granadero pastes were a little better, but not much. Clearly these varieties were not bred for taste. We wound up eating more cherries than anything this year. It's not so much the expense that bugs me so much as all the wasted time and effort. The Golden Sweet F1 grape tomatoes I got from them were pretty good, though, and lasted really long after picking. We also enjoyed the Dunja F1 zucchini, too. Overall, though, I would have been better off with a pack of old Jet Star seeds from a few years ago. Maybe you could split a few packs with another grower, or ask around about particular varieties you're interested in? At least you grow many different varieties, so if a few of them disappoint, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

October 9, 2015	#5
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	I think Granadero is fantastic. If you really let it ripen, it has really nice flavor. It is also productive and there is virtually zero loss from bruising. Granadero also is a paste tomato, and it works very well as one. I think it is unfair to compare Granadero to Cherokee Purple for flavor. It is a completely different class of tomato. San Marzano is very boring fresh, but it is a fantastic paste tomato. Apples and Oranges.

October 9, 2015	#6
Ricky Shaw Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Zone 6a Denver North Metro Posts: 1,910	I had read this a while back on the Hydro Gardens site and found it interesting. Are there seeds that are bred to be used for hydroponics or can you use just any variety of tomato seeds? I’m new to hydroponics and am wondering if it matters which seeds you choose to use when growing hydroponically? Are the tomato seeds that you offer aimed at greenhouse and commercial growers? I will be using my hydroponic system indoors. Can I just use seeds I already have left over from my outdoor gardening season? Are there seeds that are bred to be used for hydroponics or can you use just any variety of tomato seeds? Thank you, Cheryl M. Dear Cheryl, All of the seeds that we offer have been specially bred for greenhouse growing. They offer more disease resistance than garden variety seeds. They also have been bred for the gourmet market. Under controlled conditions, these varieties should have more uniform size, excellent appearance and flavor. Plant breeding can take 20 years or more to get a variety to market. Usually, the variety is only on the market for a few years before a newer variety is released. The cost of all of the breeding must be recovered by the seed companies in only a few years. This is why the cost of our seeds are much higher than garden variety seeds. Garden variety seeds can be used in small systems and they should grow OK. However, they may not have the disease resistance or the quality characteristics that you desire. A commercial grower would be placing their crop at risk of disease or poor quality by growing garden variety seeds. The larger the number of plants grown in an enclosed environment increases the odds of introducing a disease or fungus that could rapidly spread throughout their crop. Sincerely, Mike Morton President Hydro-Gardens

October 9, 2015	#7
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Johnny's prices are too high, about 40% more than what you can find elsewhere, if you can find it. And that is the thing, they offer commercial hybrid seeds in small quantities, and there are very few places you can find them like that, or nowhere else, hence their high asking price. Try UK for better prices on top cherry hybrid seeds.

October 9, 2015	#13
Keger Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Richmond, TX Posts: 327	I need about 1000 pounds of fodder a week

October 11, 2015	#14
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Grape tomatoes are easier to pick than cherries, they are made to detach easily without calyx.