I want to grow food in a field.

PaulO · July 2, 2011

Hello, this is my first post here. My brother is a member here and recommended I see if folks here have ideas for what I'm trying to do.

I want to grow as much of my own food as I can, and save seeds.

I have a several acre field that has been farmed for generations. It is in South Carolina, the dirt is mostly sand and silt. There won't be irrigation. I don't have a truck to haul in loads of organic material. I do have a wheelbarrow and access to woods.

After a year and half of attempting to grow what I can, I had a soil test done in the tallest weeds of the field and in the area that has bare dirt spots, representing the best and worst of the field. To give you an idea of what I'm working with, here are two samples taken about 150 feet apart:

When I began planting last year, I was sowing after a cotton harvest and couldn't tell which parts of the field were better than others. My garden ended up being closer to the bad part of the field, but not in the worst of it. I will be moving my garden closer to the good dirt next year.

I don't care too much what I grow as long as it is healthy. For example, I can grow purslane but want to limit how much oxalic acid I take in so I would like a variety of stuff.

Here is what I have been able to grow well:
- winter squash (two varieties have done well)
- black-eyed peas (two varieties have done well)
- watermelon (Black Diamond Yellow Belly did good, Crimson Sweet not so good)
- zucchini (amazing germination from Black Beauty)
- tomato (some variety with tiny tomatoes my brother gave me)
- purslane (one type did better than the other)

What has grown so-so:
- potato
- rosemary
- basil
- okra
- collards
- mustard greens
- carrot (none of three varieties did great)
- radish (none of three varieties did great)

From these I got about one plant from each seed pack, and it may or may not have lived long enough to produce anything:
- cucumber (tried two varieties)
- pepper (tried three varieties)
- kale

Romaine lettuce grew where none of the other lettuces did, but it is very, very bitter. Almost too bitter to eat. I think that could be from the lack of water.

The list of things that haven't germinated at all is lengthy. The soil is poor. I'm working with it, but it takes time to build it up, especially without spending a lot of money.

Why am I posting all of this? I'm looking for seeds and varieties that folks think will be easy to grow. Last year I called Park Seed and talked to a Customer Rep, but I don't think she really understood what I was looking for. Her suggestions weren't very good. I don't care too much what it is, although ideally it would be less domesticated varieties of fruits and vegetables for general health reasons.

One specific food I would like to grow well is potato. So far I've tried (in order of how well they did, from worst to best) Reddale, Yukon Gold, and Purple Viking. Does anyone know of a potato that can do well in poor soil with drought and heat? I may repost this last question in the potato forum to see if Mr. Wagner has any seeds that fit the bill.

Appreciate the help!

Sincerely,
- PaulO

lurley · July 2, 2011

Have you tried sweet potatoes? I've never had a lot of luck with regular,(red,white,yellow, or blue) potatoes. The potato beetles finish off what my wet spring doesn't, so that even when they grow instead of die, yield is small. Sweet potatoes on the other hand have always done well for me. Few pests, no fertilizer, and even in last years' drought I had an absolutely huge harvest, some two feet long.

tuk50 · July 2, 2011

Pardner, you really need to start working in composted manure every time you plant something. It (cheaply) provides a lot of good things your (farmed for gererations) soil needs.
Potatoes need a low ph soil (pine needles) if available and red types seem to do better here in Tucson than others. Sweetpotatoes are great like lurley said. Many years ago my grandpa rotated onions one year and sweetpotatoes the next in eastern Okla. where our soil was a good sandy loam with no irrigation. Cowpeas (your blackeye peas) are something that should produce great in what you describe. This is a good article from Clemson University and can give you an idea what will grow with less fertilizer and what vegetables need more. Hope this helps some. http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic1254.html

I about forgot to mention that if there is a cattle pond around, the mud or dirt around the edge where the poop washes into the tank when it rains is very rich in nitrogen and will make a great fertilizer applied at only about 1/2 in to 1 in before working up your seed beds. Another great fertilizer I use here is from the feed store. Both cottonseed meal and/or alfalfa pellets (you can google them for nutrient value) are about 15dollars per bag here. I use about 25 lbs per 1000sq ft at beginning and as side dressing again when plants start blooming.

mcsee · July 2, 2011

Paul, when you had your soil tests done, did they give you any idea on why there are such differences with Phosphorus, Potassium, Magnesium and Zinc levels. In a field, 150ft isn't a huge distance, so it just has me curious to see why they are different.

PaulO · July 2, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurley

Have you tried sweet potatoes?

Thanks for the recommendation! I will absolutely plant some next year. Just curious: have you noticed some being more drought tolerant than others?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuk50

Pardner, you really need to start working in composted manure every time you plant something. It (cheaply) provides a lot of good things your (farmed for gererations) soil needs.
Potatoes need a low ph soil (pine needles) if available and red types seem to do better here in Tucson than others. Sweetpotatoes are great like lurley said. Many years ago my grandpa rotated onions one year and sweetpotatoes the next in eastern Okla. where our soil was a good sandy loam with no irrigation. Cowpeas (your blackeye peas) are something that should produce great in what you describe. This is a good article from Clemson University and can give you an idea what will grow with less fertilizer and what vegetables need more. Hope this helps some. http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic1254.html

I about forgot to mention that if there is a cattle pond around, the mud or dirt around the edge where the poop washes into the tank when it rains is very rich in nitrogen and will make a great fertilizer applied at only about 1/2 in to 1 in before working up your seed beds. Another great fertilizer I use here is from the feed store. Both cottonseed meal and/or alfalfa pellets (you can google them for nutrient value) are about 15dollars per bag here. I use about 25 lbs per 1000sq ft at beginning and as side dressing again when plants start blooming.

Admittedly I haven't tried onions yet, but plan to do that this fall.

I have been fertilizing some using the "complete organic fertilizer" recipe mix promoted by Steve Solomon, although I dropped the phosphorous component after I got the soil test results. I got it out of his book, Gardening When It Counts (it's a great book, by the way). The main ingredient is cottonseed meal. I haven't been applying a whole lot of fertilizer, though it probably ends up being similar to how much you use. What I think the biggest problem with my soil is that it is dry. It forms a hard crust, it doesn't get regular water, and it doesn't retain water. Most types of vegetables I plant never even germinate.

So you're right: what I need is organic material. If I had a truck or trailer or some way of hauling it (or a bunch of cash), I might not be making this post. I did haul what was likely 100-200 pounds of composted manure in a large plastic tote in my car, but it doesn't go far in a large garden like mine--I'm spacing the plants out so they have less competition for water. In preparation for next year, I'm hauling a couple of full wheelbarrows of humus from the forest floor. I'm also working on composting (The Humane Handbook was an enlightening read!) but it takes time to make a lot. I am also planning to spend some money on inoculating the dirt with mycorrhizal this year. I know over time the soil will eventually be built up to a point I can grow more of the sensitive vegetables. The plan over the next year is to get some goats and ducks, and that will help too.

In the meantime, I'm hoping to add vigorous vegetable varieties to my list of reliable food to eat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsee

Paul, when you had your soil tests done, did they give you any idea on why there are such differences with Phosphorus, Potassium, Magnesium and Zinc levels. In a field, 150ft isn't a huge distance, so it just has me curious to see why they are different.

No, they didn't. The only part I left off was the "Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)" and "Base Saturations". And some of their recommendations as far as fertilizer. Would you like to see any of those?

I can post pictures, video, google maps, etc if you like to take a gander.

lurley · July 2, 2011

I've only grown standard varieties before, Georgia Jet, Beauregard and Vaardman, but all have done just fine. I am growing two varieties from Sandhill this year, Hernandez and Bradshaw along with Vaardman, so will see how they do. I have some heavy clay and although I add amendments as I have them or can afford them, I was never able to grow leafy herbs, carrots, onions from seed, lettuce, spincach, or other fine leaved veggies until I put in some raised beds, they could never break the crust of the soil and weeds were hard to control around such tiny seedlings. Two 12 ft long 2x4 up to 2x12 inch boards will make a four foot by 8 foot bed. I don't use treated wood, just regular pine boards, and fill with whatever soil, compost, peat moss mixture you have or can afford. I started with just one, and now after three years have about 8. My problem is wet spring soil, so I like that I can plant in them earlier since they drain better, but with your dry issue, you could put more water retaining ingredients into your soil mixture. With very few weeds (weed fabric put under the bed), and no crusty soil, I get fantastic germination and great yields. Two beds grew enough carrots last year to keep my family in carrots all winter long, and I dry tons of herbs or make herb pastes now, and we can have salad greens all spring and again in the fall. They have definitely been worth the little money spent. Maybe you could do one or two until your soil improves, just to handle the things that won't push through the soil crust. Another option, is to plant your row, and cover the seeds with vermiculite instead of recovering with soil, I have done that successfully before.

mcsee · July 2, 2011

What was the soil pH from your test, as it will be a good indicator to work with.

It may be worth settling on working a portion of the whole field in the short term and amend the soil in one plot now, rather than looking at the field as a big bed and spreading your money and energy over it all.

Just out of interest, can you get a green manure crop to grow eg Oats and turn it into the soil when it grows.

tuk50 · July 2, 2011

The description of crusted .. no water retention simply sound like a very depleted soil... and there is no telling what kind of fertilizers have been used in the past ... again the best, but not easy is to add literally tons of organic material to help buffer and bring the soil to life again.. it won't be done in just one or two years... anything you can get your hands on should help.. pecan hulls, peanut hulls, Christmas tree mulch, pine needles, leaves,.... I would try to avoid the barren areas in the field you described.. no telling what caused that over the years of farming there and that maybe why your sample results are all over the place. The area i'm using now was an old driveway and had no organic matter or major nutrients.. just sand with enough clay to make adobe bricks.. this is the second year and I'm still another year or two away from a good soil.. also planting a green manure crop should help bust it up and get the organic matter back in it, buckwheat and alfalfa have great deep roots and winter rye or grains help add organic matter.
On your sweetpotatoes, you might try growing your own slips by getting some at the local gro... most do well, but the Georgia Jet tends to crack with irregular watering, other than that, most common varieties are fairly tough.
mcsee, that sounds like a very good approach, to focus on one small area at a time and that would help to allow another area for green manure crops.

fortyonenorth · July 3, 2011

PaulO,

CEC and base saturations are, arguably, the most important aspects of your soil test. They provide a starting point to understanding your soil and what you need to do to improve it. Yes, posting this information would be very helpful.

tuk50 · July 3, 2011

Paul, here is a good article by a lab to help understand your lab results.... http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/supp...ercent_sat.htm

PaulO · July 3, 2011

The ph was in the part of the report up top. Here's the stuff I left off:

I looked at that article about Cation Exchange. Is there a guide for which cation exchanges are good for which vegetables?

Green manure is a good idea.

Stepheninky · July 3, 2011

Ok so if I read this right you have several available acres to farm. How much will be live stock and how much of the land will be devoted to the gardens?

Also are you looking to use the produce / live stock to just feed the family in time. Or at some point do you plan to sell the farm products to add to the families income?

What kind of equipment do you have? Ex. Tractor or will you be using hand tools?

How much time do you have? Are you retired, working a full time job etc... ?

Seems like a lot of questions but I am asking so that we can all tailor our answers to give you the best chance at success.

Anyways this is what I would recommend if I had the space you currently have.

1. Start with just one or two 25 x 25 garden plots. This is so you can concentrate your efforts on adding manure and compost etc... for the short term to get your garden growing for you as soon as possible. This is also so you are not over whelmed.

2. Any additional areas that you can get broke and ready to plant I would recommend planting as soon as you can with bush beans and some with sweet yellow clover. These are cover crops that will help prevent any more erosion of the nutrients in the soil. They both will also fix nitrogen and both will help build the soil flora. (the bacteria and mycos in the soil) Also look into winter green manure crops as well.

3. Keep a dozen hens, which will produce about 120 dozen eggs over the course of a year. This is enough for each person in a family of four to eat an egg every day, and with more chickens, additional eggs could be sold for profit. They will also produce very strong manure that once composted can be added to the garden. They also keep bug populations down. Most importantly they are relativity cheap and reproduce fast.

4. Keep bees unless there is a bee allergy in the family. One hive will produce about 100 pounds of honey per year, which is more than enough for the family to use. Additional honey can be bottled and sold at farmers markets and at local specialty stores. They will also pollinate your garden and increase yields.

5. Raise a few pigs to supplement the family's diet with some meat. Pigs require only 150 square feet per animal, making them ideal for a family farm. Young feeder pigs weighing 40 pounds will get to a harvest weight of 240 pounds within just 120 days, although they will eat 10 to 12 bushels of corn and 125 to 150 pounds of protein supplement during that time.

6. Keep goats, sheep and cows for milk or for slaughter. Generally just one cow will require about a half-acre of pasture, but goats and sheep can be kept in a smaller pasture of a quarter acre or less. A single dairy cow will produce about six gallons of milk per day. Sheep and goats also produce milk, although the taste will be different from the traditional cow's milk. If money is tight and you have the space get 1 -2 cows, you can call any large animal vet and he can inseminate the cows for you. Then you can either sale the calves, grow them out for slaughter, or grow your herd.

7. Soil building through cover crops can be a bit slow but each year rotate the veg crops into the cover crop areas.

8. If you do not already have a compost pile started, then start one. Not even counting garden and yard compost the average family produces lots of trash waste that can be composted. Almost anything organic needs to go in the pile.

9. Try to use any of the resources you have available to you. Such as this site, talking with local farmers, your states ag dept. and any collage or university out reach programs.

10. Grow what you like to eat, and also find what grows well for you. (Which I notice you are doing already and build from there.

Anyways that's my list of advice. Except 11. look at store prices of the produce, some things like potatoes and onions are fairly cheap. So I would concentrate first on the more expensive to buy veggies. Later as you get things built up and going then add those if you want to.

PaulO · July 4, 2011

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