Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.
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July 20, 2006 | #1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Spudleaf's old stompin' grounds
Posts: 11
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What would you cross a potato leaf Black with?
I have 1 plant that's a PL black tomato, like Eva Purple Ball with the speckling/mottling, similar size/3", slightly flatter than a perfect globe.
What would you cross it with? Here's the choices (there's some duplications if they fit more than one category, and a question mark if questionably in that category--for example, if Opal's is really a Determinate, Green Grape a grape, etc): BI-COLOR Ananas Noire, Burracker's Favorite, Polish Pastel, Peaches & Cream, King Pineapple BLACK Carbon, Cherokee Purple, DeBarao Black, Korney's Cross?, Marizol Korney, Negro Azteca, Nagcarlang? BLACK CHERRY Negro Azteca ORANGE CHERRY Jaune Flammee, SunPlum? GREEN CHERRY Green Grape, Lime Green Salad PINK CHERRY Quartz Multiflora, Wild Florida Everglade RED CHERRY Ciudad Victoria, Matt's Wild Cherry YELLOW CHERRY Galina's, Ildi CURRANT SIZED Ciudad Victoria, Wild Florida Everglade DWARF CHERRY Green PL Dwarf, Lime Green Salad DWARF FULL-SIZE New Big Dwarf, Sophie's Choice DETERMINATE Mountain Princess, Opal's Homestead?, Rio Grande GRAPE Ildi, Green Grape? GREEN Cherokee Green, Green Grape, Lime Green Salad, Green PL Dwarf LONG KEEPING Giraffe MULTIFLORA-PINK Quartz Multiflora MULTIFLORA-YELLOW Ildi ORANGE Persimmon OXHEART--PINK Happy Jack OXHEART--RED Ukrainian Heart, Yugoslavian PINK Aunt Ginny's, Arkansas Traveler, Chianti Rose, Dr. Neal, Dutchman, Gogosha, Indian Stripe, Lithuanian, Marizol Purple, Micado Violettor, Pruden's Purple, Russian Rose, Tiffen Mennonite, Wanda's Potato Top, New Big Dwarf POTATO LEAF-PINK Chianti Rose, Gogosha, Lithuanian, Micado Violettor, Pruden's Purple, Tiffen Mennonite, Wanda's Potato Top POTATO LEAF-RED Brandywine OTV, Kimberly POTATO LEAF-YELLOW/GOLD Aunt Gertie's Gold, Galina's PLUM--BLACK DeBarao Black PLUM--ORANGE Orange Banana PLUM--RED Blocky Marzano, Horvath, Pompeii, Rio Grande, Sojourner SA, Uncle Steve's REDS--LARGE Brandywine OTV, Early Santa Clara, Improved Colossal Red, Kellogg's West Virginia, Mark Twain, Mule Team, Old Virginia, Opal's Homestead, Red Brandywine, St. Pierre, Sophie's Choice STRIPED Speckled Roman, Green PL Dwarf YELLOW OTHER Hugh's OTHER Nagcarlang
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. I'll be back... bigger, stronger, faster, better... |
July 20, 2006 | #2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,.
Posts: 197
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crossing partner w/ PL Black
Bowtie,
Lots of possible partners from your list depending on what you want to do as far as color, size, shape, and leaf type (RL or PL). An interesting cross would be with Japanese Trefile Black, a PL black with good productivity, taste, and interesting non-globe shapes. Since both are PL's you wouldn't have to be roughing out RL plants and would see results in the F1, of black PL fruits instead of waiting for the F2 for PL plants of various colors to show up with a non-black crossing partner . Using a RL cross partner with a color other than black does complicate the genetics somewhat. Maybe Keith could chime in on some of the other genetic possibilities as I'm no expert on recessive and dominant traits when it comes to color, shape, etc. Good luck in whatever you end up trying. Best regards, Spudleaf Willie (in his "new stomping grounds" in sw NM) |
July 21, 2006 | #3 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ (zone 9b)
Posts: 796
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If it were me, by far and without question...
Multiflora pink - i.e. Rose Quartz Multiflora ...just think about it.. a huge spray of BLACK tomatoes, cherry or otherwise.. |
July 21, 2006 | #4 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Spudleaf's old stompin' grounds
Posts: 11
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Quote:
There was a list of weird combos I saw somewhere else once, I think it was to do as research to see what the results would be. Lots of questions to get answered. What do you get when you cross a black with a green? a green w/a bi-color? a striped w/a bi-color? etc etc. An orange w/a black? a multiflora w/a dwarf? a multiflora w/a huge beefsteak or oxheart? an indeterminate with a d^x? Based on some things I have growing now, I can try some of these, preferably PL females to make things easier; if you have any comments or previous results of these please share: PL BLACK x BI-COLOR (like Ananas?) PL BLACK x OXHEART PL BLACK x DWARF (Browned Robin?) PL BLACK x PLUM (DeBarao Bigger Black?) PL BLACK x MULTIFLORA PL BLACK x GREEN PL BLACK x ORANGE (Oriole?) PL BLACK x STRIPED (Black Lightning?) PL BLACK x YELLOW PL BLACK x GREEN-STRIPE (gs) PL PINK x BI-COLOR PL PINK x UKRAINIAN HEART? PL PINK x DWARF (?) PL PINK x DETERMINATE PL YLW x BI-COLOR (Aunt Gertie's Blushing?) PL YLW x BLACK PL YLW x DWARF PL YLW x DETERMINATE PL YLW x GREEN (Galina's Green?) PL YLW x ORANGE PL YLW x OXHEART PL YLW x PINK MULTIFLORA PL YLW x PLUM PL YLW x GREEN STRIPED (Lemon Lime?) PL YLW x YLW MULTIFLORA PL x BI-COLOR PL x DWARF PL x DETERMINATE PL x MULTIFLORA (Kimberly's Explosion?) PL x OXHEART PL x PLUM PL x STRIPED PLUM x BI-COLOR PLUM x DWARF PLUM x MULTIFLORA (Well Hung 50?) STRIPED x BI-COLOR STRIPED x MULTIFLORA YELLOW MULTIFLORA x PINK MULTIFLORA etc etc. Which look good or interesting? Bill, I understood what you said but not why... the only thing I see, on paper, is... different shapes? If the parents are so similar, what do we gain or see in the results? Sirtanon, that multiflora cross is one I'm thinking of...
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. I'll be back... bigger, stronger, faster, better... |
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July 21, 2006 | #5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Spudleaf's old stompin' grounds
Posts: 11
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Yes, definitely... see any on the list that look like they'd taste good?
Maybe you can explain some basic results you'd get from certain color crosses or shape crosses? Which non-red colors when crossed with other non-red colors give what kind of results? Maybe you can just add comments/predictions after some of the cross combos above?
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. I'll be back... bigger, stronger, faster, better... |
July 21, 2006 | #6 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Spudleaf's old stompin' grounds
Posts: 11
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Sounds like your lips are sealed, almost as much as Tom's? Spill the beans Keith.
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. I'll be back... bigger, stronger, faster, better... |
July 21, 2006 | #7 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,.
Posts: 197
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Tom Wagner???
Keith, et al???
Does Tom Wagner post on T'ville?? What is his screen name?? I dont see much from him on GW and the other forums.. Its a shame he is so tight mouthed, he has such a wealth of knowledge that is untapped about mater genetics. Regards, Spud |
July 21, 2006 | #8 |
Tomatoville® Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7
Posts: 10,385
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What has really surprised me this year as far as crosses is how much luck is involved in terms of finding good flavor in the F1. If you've been following the R&D thread on the Dwarf project, there are some pretty good flavored tomatoes being crossed that are leading to some pretty bland tasting hybrids (of all of the 10 dwarfs F1s we are growing, seems as though Sleazy A and Witty are the two with pretty good flavor). That of course doesn't mean that there are really good finds to be made when we take this further into the F2, F3 and beyond.
It is just clear that crossing two very good flavored tomatoes doesn't mean you are going to get a great - or even good - flavored hybrid!
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Craig |
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