A garden is only as good as the ground that it's planted in. Discussion forum for the many ways to improve the soil where we plant our gardens.
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#1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 14
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I had my soil tested a couple of years ago and haven't really done anything with it yet. The county extension agent basically told me it is beyond reclamation. I'll build raised beds if I have to, but I really want to have an in-ground garden (even if its raised mounds).
In addition to the soil test info below, I'll add that the drainage is terrible. The water is about 2' down. pH: 8.0Anyone think there's any hope of improving this soil enough to actually grow something in it? I've considered a few things I could do. One is add a LOT of sawdust & a nitrogen source to get some non-manure organic matter in there. I have a massive pile of wood chips too. I have been composting them with manure, but I guess I could start composting them with a non-manure nitrogen source. There's also a couple products I've been considering (but would sure hate to waste any money if its a hopeless situation) - Soil Secrets products (as discussed here and here) or ByoSoil Saltbind (discussed here). I've emailed both these companies, but neither has responded yet. I'd be thrilled if I could get to a point that I could at least start working with some cover crops for biomass and improving drainage. I certainly don't expect to start growing tomatoes and green beans this summer ![]() |
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#2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5,931
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hmmm wow that's difficult. Is this a natural site? Has there been industry or has all the topsoil been removed? I will leave this to folks from your area to advise if this is native soil conditions.
I would be most concerned about the salt and the lime. It's easy to add things to a depleted soil but very difficult to remove excess of anything. If it were mine and I had to stay there, I think raised beds might be the best option but lets see what your local folks think KarenO |
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#3 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,488
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Honestly I have yet to tackle a soil like that. So I would only be guessing. I would start with about 6 inches of partially composted ramial wood chips though and maybe even try a hugelkultur bed. Does anything at all grow there? If so use those native species present as your cover crops!
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Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture |
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#4 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7
Posts: 3,207
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I'm not sure why one part of the report suggests gypsum and the other part says it's not needed. The nitrogen is easy to add. Use blood meal and then fish emulsion or alfalfa. Just grow things that are more salt and high pH tolerant for awhile. Chars and beets would be other options, along with peppers. Adparagus can do really well there if drainage is improved but will need lots of organic matter. |
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#5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: selmer, tn
Posts: 2,944
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It may be that raised beds are your best option at the present time and also having a longer range plan.
Either way may success reward your efoorts. jon ![]() |
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#6 | |||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 14
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As for what grows there - I'm not 100% certain, but I think a sad looking light green grass (saltgrass?), horseweed, and salt sage. We disturbed the area and added compost/sawdust/alfalfa/sulphur attempting to get a cover crop to grow (with no luck) and the weeds moved in (before that it was just that low growing light green grass). At this point, I'm welcoming anything that volunteers to grow there and leave its dying roots in the soil (except bindweed! ![]() I also bought some seeds for Saltbush (Atriplex halimus). It won't survive our winter, but if I can get it to grow all summer I can take cuttings to plant again in the spring. I've read it can help de-salinate soil. I imagine it would be ideal to lay down landscape fabric to catch any fallen leaves and remove the plants and dispose of them off site at the end of summer. Quote:
If I went with raised beds (or mounds), how tall should they be? Will plants send their roots horizontally and avoid the saline soil, or will they send them down into it and suffer? I appreciate everyone's input ![]() |
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#7 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Den of Drunken Fools
Posts: 38,539
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I'm going to give some advise on your soil.
You dont have soil it hasn't been there for thousands if not millions of years. As for the raised beds here is more of what I would call sound advise. You have salts in your soil and a high water table. This is what is going to happen. You put down a mound of good soil and the water you use will come into contact with the water that is already there. The salt will literally climb its way into the good soil you put on top by capillary action and ruin it. You wont be able to leach out the salts because of the high water table. It wont be no time at all that all of that good soil you put down will have salt crystals on top. What I would do is create a barrier between the bad salty soil and the good soil you put in. This would mean a raised bed with bottoms on concrete slabs or at the very least a good double layer plastic vapor barrier in between. You can even put the mounds you speak of on the vapor barrier without the raised beds with sides. Worth |
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#8 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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What a mess? I would give it a miss and use containers, there are numerous versions and the range of plants you could grow would be sufficient for most families.
Certainly the easier way to go. ![]() |
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#9 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,413
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How big of a garden do you want? You could ditch all the way around and mound up the garden area and start watering, watering and more watering. Put a sump in the ditch and pump what seeps into it away. Keep checking the electical conductivity of what collects in the ditch. This all assumes you have plenty of good quality water. And with your clay soil, you are going to need plenty of time too.
There might be some kinds of crops that can suck down the water table too. Cant think of one that is salt tolerant offhand. One thing Im not clear on, if a salt tolerant plant transpires water, does the salt reside in that plants tissue? Or did the roots leave the salt behind in the soil (making it even saltier than before)? There is always the container idea.. |
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#10 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Den of Drunken Fools
Posts: 38,539
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The salt stays in the ground it doesn't go into the plant.
The high water table is the problem. And a raised bed with a bottom on it is far more practical and less expensive than a container. Especially in New Mexico. The plants can get everything they need in 12 inches of soil maybe less. Worth |
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#11 | |||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 14
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For the most part though, I think I'm going to shift my focus to just getting decent pasture started for animals. I have raised beds right next to the chicken yard that are doing great - maybe I can give the chickens the boot to the salty field and set up more raised beds in the chicken yard. |
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#12 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,488
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So you have the premier international experts on land restoration with animal impact right in you back yard and they are non profit! ![]() Now true they generally work with huge ranches and rangeland. But I highly recommend you contact them and see if they have some kind of program to teach you how to do it. I have talked to them on the phone before about my project. They are pretty helpful. Holistic Management International
__________________
Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture |
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#13 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 14
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Thank you for that Scott, I'll look into it.
I went ahead and placed an order with Soil Secrets. They recommend their product "protein crumbles" to be applied with the TerraPro (humic acid, mycorrhizae, etc) but I didn't buy it. Its basically an organic fertilizer that feeds the microbes. I don't know how necessary it is, but it couldn't hurt to give them a little something extra to munch on, right? Any suggestions? I tried to get spent grains from the local brewery, but they had to put me on a wait list. We get about 5-6 gallons of coffee grounds every week. Maybe something cheap from the feed store? Its time to clean the coop too - that's a few hundred pounds of coarse sawdust (plus manure). The test area is going to be about 1000 sq ft. I'm going to test out a pasture mix for alkaline/saline soils in the area too. Last edited by jojomojo; April 15, 2015 at 09:20 PM. |
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#14 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7
Posts: 3,207
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Add alfalfa. Great soil conditioner and nutrients.
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#15 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 14
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Alfalfa - yes! I thought I listed that. I love using that to prep my raised beds with and watering with alfalfa tea in the summer.
Any suggestions on composting wood chips without manure? I usually use alfalfa to heat up a compost pile, but I'm not sure if its enough for a pile of wood chips. |
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