Thin seedlings

[Reinheitsgebot]

I was unable to find a similar post so please forgive me if this has been covered at some point.

Every year seems like a different problem for me when it comes to starting tomato seeds. I never seems to have issues with peppers, but I digress. Does anyone have any insight as to what might be causing the issue pictured and whether it can be remedied? I started my seeds in a flat on a heat mat with a proper soil mix from a local greenhouse. I covered it with plastic wrap that was flipped daily until most of the seeds had germinated. I then discarded the plastic covering and moved them under the grow lights, where they have been for about a week now. In all the pictures I have seen from people who have a handle on this, their seedlings look thicker and vertical as opposed to the horizontal growth I am seeing. Is there a fix? Is it too late to start over for a zone 5 garden?

[ginger2778]

They are not getting enough light. Are your grow lights further than 2-3 inches?( 4 inches if your light puts out heat) I also think you didn't put them under the light soon enough. They needed to have the plastic off as soon as you saw the very first seedling making it's elbow out of the soil, and they needed to be put under close grow lights as soon as the first seedling started to elbow up.
They look healthy enough, just transplant super deeply as soon as they get that first set of true leaves and the start of the second. And for right now, get them as close to your grow lights as the light(or heat from it) will let them get.
Also, don't forget to move the light to keep it the right distance as described above, while they get larger.

[Koala Doug]

I also think the light is way too weak.

Is it an old T12 (or T8)? If so, buy a new bulb/tube as they lose light intensity over time.

Please let us know what type of light you're using as that will determine how close you can place them to the tops of the plants. For instance, I use T5 HO ('HO' standing for 'High-Output') and I have to keep the tops of the plants at least 7-8 inches from the lights or else I'll get light bleaching/light burn.

[oakley]

Time to study up. We all start seed a bit different but some methods work consistently. Invest in
a seed starting cell tray. Once seedlings emerge and stand up, no top watering. Water is heavy and
forces them flat to the soil floor. They hate that. Suffering trying to stand up to your lights.

Peppers come up slowly but have almost a woody stem right out of the gate.

I've started tomatoes under weak old florescent bulbs but set them close. (not ideal but worked).

[bower]

Besides the light issues, it looks like they were sowed too shallow, and the seedlings have just a whisker of the root in the ground. You can easily lose them in this condition (I know cause I've done it and even keep on doing it with some kinds of seeds!). So I would not wait for them to get another leaf before getting them deeper in the ground.
Simplest would be to poke a row of holes with your finger, in the space between the present rows, then take those up one by one, pop it down into the hole, and close. Again, i do this all the time and tomato seedlings will be fine with it - just make sure nothing is too dry before you start.

You could, alternatively, top up the container with some more potting soil to cover the long bits, but you would have the dickens of a time trying to separate the tomatoes later.

[Reinheitsgebot]

Thank you for all the replies. I use T12 fluorescent, alternating 4100K and 6500K. One thing I was doing incorrectly was not removing the plastic soon enough per ginger2778. As for depth, I followed Craig LeHoullier's guidance per his video "nctomatoman's dense seed planting technique," covering until no longer visible.


Unfortunately, doing this only once per year does not lend itself to learning by trial and error. Though, now that I think of it, I suppose there is nothing stopping me from purchasing some "throwaway" seeds and trying until I get it right.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Reinheitsgebot

Thank you for all the replies. I use T12 fluorescent, alternating 4100K and 6500K. One thing I was doing incorrectly was not removing the plastic soon enough per ginger2778. As for depth, I followed Craig LeHoullier's guidance per his video "nctomatoman's dense seed planting technique," covering until no longer visible.


Unfortunately, doing this only once per year does not lend itself to learning by trial and error. Though, now that I think of it, I suppose there is nothing stopping me from purchasing some "throwaway" seeds and trying until I get it right.

You can even practice with store bought tomato seeds.
Starting from collecting fermenting and saving the seeds on to sprouting and growing the seeds.

I often wonder why more people dont do this.
Yet they wait till that one time of the year to practice the critical process.

[xellos99]

I just happen to have germinated tomato seeds the other day and took a photo at day 1, 2 and 3 after emergence.
Im not trying to patronise you, I just find my way works perfect every time so thought you might like to try next time something similar.
I used a $20 - $30 heated propagator and standard multipurpose and germinated in the pots you see in the photos.
The day after the 1st photo I took them out of the machine and into a greenhouse all day ( or windowsill will do ) and then used 2 T5 lights taped together indoors from about 7PM to midnight. Then next day indoors with lights again on a windowsill.
The 3rd photo I took just now and is a 3 day old seedling.

DAY 1
029.jpg

DAY 2
046.jpg

DAY 3
003.jpg

[oakley]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You can even practice with store bought tomato seeds.
Starting from collecting fermenting and saving the seeds on to sprouting and growing the seeds.

I often wonder why more people dont do this.
Yet they wait till that one time of the year to practice the critical process.

^I so agree with this. Seeds are cheap. Test seeding a month early if just a small six-pack
cell. 2-3 seeds per cell. Not only are you testing the soil you will eventually be using, but
a process test and method is invaluable for education. Well ahead of your 'expert' suggested
seeding time.
My indeterminates last night. (way ready to pot up but not leggy like above)
And a germination test I did last x-mas to test the soil and my own saved seed.

[SQWIBB]

Make sure you remove the seedlings from the Heat Mat, the mat is only needed for germination,.
Lack of light, not getting under lights quick enough and keeping the seedlings on a heat mat after germination will all contribute to spindly seedlings.

[SQWIBB]

Here is an example of me NOT getting some seedlings, uncovered, off the heat mat and under the lights fast enough.







These were timed better.

[Reinheitsgebot]

Originally Posted by oakley

^I so agree with this. Seeds are cheap. Test seeding a month early if just a small six-pack
cell. 2-3 seeds per cell. Not only are you testing the soil you will eventually be using, but
a process test and method is invaluable for education. Well ahead of your 'expert' suggested
seeding time.
My indeterminates last night. (way ready to pot up but not leggy like above)
And a germination test I did last x-mas to test the soil and my own saved seed.

Wow, your plants look incredible! What type of lighting are you using? Through practice, I would like to strive for similar results as yours.

[Tormato]

It's not too late to start over, if you must. I haven't even started most of my tomatoes, yet.





How do you water your seedlings with that set-up?

[oldman]

If you're using the same heat mat for peppers and tomatoes that may be a contributing factor too. I'm the opposite of you as I usually have problems with peppers but my tomato problems are usually limited to seed not germinating. if it's way too old (more than 10 years).


If you don't have one you might want to pick up an IR thermometer at at auto parts store Or just use a digital meat thermometer if you have one of those. Tomatoes germinate best at between 75 AND 85 F. Up to 90 they get leggy unless they get about 14 hours of light. This is as much because they grow faster at higher temps. This is a good thing when they've been potted up or planted out. For the first few weeks higher temps contribute to skraggly plants that dry out too fast . Since peppers like higher heat and you don't have problems with them I'm thinking it's a factor for you.


I'd suggest trying to start a flat on the heat mat and leaving the dome off. It holds in both heat and moisture. You'll want to mist the flats two or three times a day to keep them damp/most but not wet. If you want to keep the domes on, try staring your tomatoes in a room that's 10 degrees cooler than the one you use for peppers. Heat mats aren't usually precision instruments and usually just claim to keep flats 20 degrees warmer than ambient room temp or something like that. So you need to control room temperature if you can't control the heat mat temperature.


For lighting I'd recommend getting an LED setup. There are a variety of sizes. Figure out how much you want to spend and get the best output you can afford. You can get a LED grow light that is around 750W and fiull spectrum for about $100. It's enough output for 4 1020 flats at once with potted up stuff surrounding them to take advantage of the extra light. I have a 270W model I got for $15 on eBay. It can do 2 flats because it can be put closer. You can get cheapies that are less than 100W for about 20 bucks retail, but you get what you pay for.

[tryno12]

Is a cloudy day outside in the spring as good as mediocre grow lights?