K, N & P Test Results... Please help me, finial soil amendments

[MrSalvage]

Here are some snaps of the last three tests I needed to do. I was wondering what i might need to do to my soil before my May 1st planting date.

These 3 pictures were took at the 10 minute window as suggested by the test kit. I went ahead and added the PH test in the fourth shot to keep them all together.

I shook the 3 tests again after I took the 10 minute pictures. It seems it didn't break the powder down very well even though we shook the heck out of it. So i will post them in a few minutes as well

Thanks
Bill

[MrSalvage]

Here they are again after another shake and 10 more minutes. Not recommended by the manufacture of the kit btw...

[MrSalvage]

Welp I ended up getting some 17-17-17 fert to go along with the compost I have. While i was there I picked up some pelleted lime too.

I will need to get up to speed on how much of this stuff i need to apply. I am new to all this but have been reading as much as I can.

With my garden being a 20x40 ft plot can anyone tell me how much of that lime I need to apply?

Also whats the best way to use the 17-17-17 fert? Is this something that should be mixed and feed to seedlings and then my transplants ect?

[PureHarvest]

Use 5 lbs of lime spread evenly as possible over your garden.
Water it in.
You are applying calcitic lime, but your ph test doesn't tell us why your pH is what it is.
If you are low in magnesium dolomitic limestone would have been the lime to use.
Don't freak out though it won't be the end of the world both limestones are high in calcium. The dolomitic just would have delivered some magnesium too.
You can always add that later if mag is needed.
I applaud you for testing your soil, but encourage you to take 2-3 tablespoons of soil from 10 spots around your garden about 4-6" deep before you lime and fertilize or add anything else to your garden. We don't want fresh lime or fert to mess with your next test.
Don't touch it with your hands, as they have a pH value you don't want contaminating the sample. Save this soil to send or take to a lab so you can get more details on exactly what is going on with your soil. Your initial test is telling u things might be off, but you don't know to what degree or why.
A lab or cooperative extension will give you these details and it won't cost that much.
Search online for soil labs in Virginia or your neighboring states. You may be in driving distance of a local university that does testing or you might have to mail the sample. They only need a cup worth.
Do not use the 17-17-17 on your seedlings, you will probably burn them.
You should spread over your garden before planting. You need about 100-120 lbs per acre of nitrogen for the life of your crop. You only have 80 sqft (an acre is 43,560).
So, you need .22lbs of N total for the season. Your fert is 17% N.
.17 times 50lb bags means your bag has 8.5 lbs of actual N in it.
8.5 times .22 is 1.87 lbs.
So your garden needs 1.87 lbs of 17-17-17 on it to supply the nitrogen you need. However, I would not apply all that up front because it won't make it until harvest. Spread half now and then later on fertilize each plant or down the side of your row when your first fruits are pea sized. Ideally something else other than 17-17-17 as you don't need that much phosphorus (the second number of the 3 17s).
Maybe get some plant or tree tone from espoma.
Use every two weeks on each plant or along the row:

- Rows: 1 cup each side per 5 feet of row.
- Single Plants: 3 tablespoons per plant.
- Potted Plants: Apply 1.5 teaspoons per 4 ̋ of pot diameter (1.5 tablespoon per
12 inch pot diameter).

[MrSalvage]

This is great information you have provided. So first off thank you very much for your time and knowledge! I know it's not a easy thing to offer advise because of all the variables. Again your time and knowledge as well as everyone else's here is the resource I needed. I really want to get on the right track but it's very confusing to say the least. Being a first year Gardner I will have all sorts of stupid questions. The thing is I can't learn if i don't ask them.

So Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Now...

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

You only have 80 sqft (an acre is 43,560).

I wanna recheck with you on this. My garden plot is 20 ft x 40 ft so its a 800 sqft area. The math you used below was it based on 80 sqft or 800 sqft?

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Use 5 lbs of lime spread evenly as possible over your garden. Water it in.

You are applying calcitic lime, but your ph test doesn't tell us why your pH is what it is.
If you are low in magnesium dolomitic limestone would have been the lime to use.

Don't freak out though it won't be the end of the world both limestones are high in calcium. The dolomitic just would have delivered some magnesium too.

You can always add that later if mag is needed.

Southern States is not that far from the house and Lime is cheap. So i will swap out the Calcitic and get Dolomitic. So first lesson learned and that's why I posted the pictures. Thanks for the hand holding on the Lime. I still need to confirm the amount to apply for 800 sqft.

I also have done quite a bit of googling for some sort of Magnesium test I could buy but could not find one. While googling I found a lot of posts about Hydrated Lime being to fast acting or strong I guess. So I am trying to confirm that before the next trip out to SS. So a couple questions...

1) Should a pelleted type be used or powder?
2) Hydrated or regular Lime?

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

I applaud you for testing your soil, but encourage you to take 2-3 tablespoons of soil from 10 spots around your garden about 4-6" deep before you lime and fertilize or add anything else to your garden. We don't want fresh lime or fert to mess with your next test.

I have already added almost 1 yard of the local county made compost. There is no way i can get a clean sample of my soil anymore.

1) Will this effect any test results from a lab?

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Don't touch it with your hands, as they have a pH value you don't want contaminating the sample. Save this soil to send or take to a lab so you can get more details on exactly what is going on with your soil. Your initial test is telling u things might be off, but you don't know to what degree or why. A lab or cooperative extension will give you these details and it won't cost that much. Search online for soil labs in Virginia or your neighboring states. You may be in driving distance of a local university that does testing or you might have to mail the sample. They only need a cup worth.

I will get more samples from the plot before I add anything else. I will try to find a lab to send it off but not really sure if its going to do any good for this year. I must get everything planted / sowed asap. I need to get all the seeds in the ground. Whats your take on the time line? I really only have a 4 month window right now. So 120 days and most my plants wont start producing until late July or August. Sure I have September but it does start getting dicey weather wise. Plus the fact I added all that local made compost.

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Do not use the 17-17-17 on your seedlings, you will probably burn them.

Loud and clear about the fert on the seedlings. I am getting ready to transplant them all into styrofoam cups filled with miracle grow potting soil. What can i do to help them move along? Maybe the MG potting soil is enough?

I will break down the rest of your very informative post in a few minutes. I want to get this part posted now. Again thank you so much for your knowledge & time!

Bill

[PureHarvest]

Bill nice catch on my math mistake. Recovering from surgery here so I flaked out on that detail. Glad you caught that.
Yes you have 800 square feet.
So up the lime to 50 lbs and the fert would be 2.2 lbs of N needed
Which is 8.5 lbs of N in your 50 lb bag times 2.2 equals 18.7 lbs of 17-17-17 fert over your garden.
Probably spread half of that as your pre plant fertility and follow up with side dressing with something else later.
Stick with the calcitic lime you have because we don't want to add the dolomitic lime until we know there is a need for the extra magnesium.
You can sample your soil in the late fall after everything is dead. By then your compost and other ingredients will have reacted and mixed with your base soil. In the future, get powdered or pulverized lime if you can because it is the finest particle size so it will react the fastest due to more surface area.
The fast acting hydrated lime is relatively new so I can't tell you first hand about that. I do know you use a lot less of it. But you are doing a small area so no big deal. It is handy for the guy who needs to spread 20 or more bags of regular lime on his lawn. He only needs to push around less than half the material with the fast acting stuff.
The mg soil should has fert already in it so once you water in your seedlings when u up pot, u should be good until transplant.

[PureHarvest]

Ideally you would incorporate the lime and fert this weekend and have it rained on or water it in.
Then you can sow seeds or put in your transplants next week and thereafter.
Each veggie you grow will have different needs as far as when and how much to fertilize after they start growing.
Look up home vegetable guides from va tech, Cornell, Penn state, or Rutgers for more info on each veggie.
I will try to find one and post it.

Here is a good one to get you started on fertility and side dressing for a few common crops.
Also summarizes a lot of what I told you already.
Also handy because it gives you some options on what you can side dress with and how much and often.
http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic1254.html
I would take a look at espoma products for your fert needs as they are organically based and contain more than just NPK.
You can use plant tone or garden tone. I have used tree tone and holly tone in my own garden. They are all made from the same stuff. They just tweak the amount of each ingredient to get certain ratios and have more product to sell.
Because they are made from organic materials like feather meal and manure, they don't leach out of the soil after lots of rain. They also come with microbes and their ingredients feed the microbes you already have.

[MrSalvage]

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Bill nice catch on my math mistake. Recovering from surgery here so I flaked out on that detail. Glad you caught that.
Yes you have 800 square feet.
So up the lime to 50 lbs and the fert would be 2.2 lbs of N needed
Which is 8.5 lbs of N in your 50 lb bag times 2.2 equals 18.7 lbs of 17-17-17 fert over your garden.
Probably spread half of that as your pre plant fertility and follow up with side dressing with something else later.
Stick with the calcitic lime you have because we don't want to add the dolomitic lime until we know there is a need for the extra magnesium.
You can sample your soil in the late fall after everything is dead. By then your compost and other ingredients will have reacted and mixed with your base soil. In the future, get powdered or pulverized lime if you can because it is the finest particle size so it will react the fastest due to more surface area.
The fast acting hydrated lime is relatively new so I can't tell you first hand about that. I do know you use a lot less of it. But you are doing a small area so no big deal. It is handy for the guy who needs to spread 20 or more bags of regular lime on his lawn. He only needs to push around less than half the material with the fast acting stuff.
The mg soil should has fert already in it so once you water in your seedlings when u up pot, u should be good until transplant.

I certainly hope you doing better now with your surgery. It does take a while tho i'm sure of that.

Flaked no... Your awesome for taking the time to even post. Thanks for recalculating that for me. I am straight now and understood everything you have said.

I just need to get out there and clean up that tree i dropped a few days ago. It had some kind of poison ivy on it and me and my girl are suffering from it bad now. I think standing to close to fire while burning is how it got us. My lord i am tore up. I have Calamine Lotion on all over me. It's driving me nuts and I really don't want to touch that tree again. Man I just don't have a choice tho.

Anyway...

Is there some kind of online fertilizer calculator you guys use or something?

Thanks Again
Bill

[PureHarvest]

See some of my edits above and look at a bag of garden tone for quantities and frequencies

[MrSalvage]

Yep i have been re reading them all. I see you tuning the post up to better reflect your advise. thank you...

Should i apply both fertilizer and lime at the same time then till it all in? Does it matter? The plot is also a little wet right now. With the chance of another shower today.

Thanks
Bill

[PureHarvest]

Fert and lime can go down together but Pelletized lime needs to be wetted first to soften/ dissolve the pellets so they can break apart and cover mor surface area.
So I'd spread the lime and irrigate or hope that it rains soon. Then spread fert and till in a few inches.
Ideally you would not till wet soil though. It is a " just right" kinda moisture level. Not wet but not totally dry.
Supposed to be nice warm and sunny in our area the next 3-4 days. Maybe you can spread lime tomorrow, wet, then let the sun dry things up a bit befor the next rain. Spread your fert and till.
Or find some pulverized lime and spread that and your fert the same day you till. No need to wet.
You will want the garden to get rained on or irrigate after you till the stuff in so it can go to work before u plant though.

[MrSalvage]

Got it, Thank you so much cause I now have a plan!

Bill

[MrSalvage]

I am going to Lowes tonight to reload on the Lime. I will get the pulverized kind this time not pellets. Since i'm there is their something better fertilizer wise to finish the finial prep before I plant then the 17-17-17 Southern States sold me?

Again its a 20x40 or 800 sqft and I have only added 1 Yard of compost. It's also a brand new spot that hasn't grown anything in over 30 years...

[PureHarvest]

See if they have espoma products.
Plant tone or tree tone would do but take note of and use the directions on the tomato tone or garden tone. They are good because they have more than just N P and K.
You Will have to buy a couple of the big bags and use it through the season.
From the label for garden tone
When preparing gardens for vegetables or tomatoes apply 3.5 lbs. of Garden-tone per 50 square feet and work into the top 4 to 5 inches of soil. When possible, organic matter such as compost, humus, or peat moss should be mixed into the top 4 to 5 inches of soil.


- Feed seedlings and transplants one week to 10 days after planting.
- Single plants: Sprinkle 1/3 cup per plant.
- Rows: Sprinkle 1-1/3 cup each side per 5 ft. of row or 10 lbs. each side per 100 ft. of row.
Methods and Frequency
- Apply in a single band around single plants.
- Feed alongside of row. Keep 3 inches from stem. - Feed monthly throughout the growing season.
- Always water thoroughly after feeding.

[MrSalvage]

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

See if they have espoma products.
Plant tone or tree tone would do but take note of and use the directions on the tomato tone or garden tone. They are good because they have more than just N P and K.
You Will have to buy a couple of the big bags and use it through the season.
From the label for garden tone
When preparing gardens for vegetables or tomatoes apply 3.5 lbs. of Garden-tone per 50 square feet and work into the top 4 to 5 inches of soil. When possible, organic matter such as compost, humus, or peat moss should be mixed into the top 4 to 5 inches of soil.


- Feed seedlings and transplants one week to 10 days after planting.
- Single plants: Sprinkle 1/3 cup per plant.
- Rows: Sprinkle 1-1/3 cup each side per 5 ft. of row or 10 lbs. each side per 100 ft. of row.
Methods and Frequency
- Apply in a single band around single plants.
- Feed alongside of row. Keep 3 inches from stem. - Feed monthly throughout the growing season.
- Always water thoroughly after feeding.

Yep they had espoma at $10.00 for a bag of 8lbs. I would have needed 7 bags to start with. If my math is correct and i just didn't have that kind of cabbage to throw at this hobby this weekend. So I will go back to your original plan based on lack of funds.

The lime was a bust because all were Dolomitic so I just left them alone as well. I did buy two different non mechanical sprinklers for a song and able to do 900 sqft each. I am on a well with a spring running through so water is not an issue. I will just water in the Lime I all ready have.

I did buy some Alaska Fish Food and i have one of the big boxes of Miracle Grow.

Now that I have all of that 50ft tree cleaned up. I have one more 50 footer I am going to knock down today. At least this one doesn't have 35 years worth of poison ivy in it.

My lord what a mess that was... Hopefully I will get to the lime after I get the top half of this new tree out of my garden!

Thank you again. Your advise has been spot on. I wished i could have pulled the trigger on the Espoma but it just wasn't in the cards.

Bill