help me with my structure and posts

[tnkrer]

I have a 20' x 1.5' row where I plan to plant a bunch of beans and one tomato and one cucumber. My idea is to create a simple structure and then drop twine from the top to support the plants. The structure will consist of 5 posts 8 ft high. At the top of the posts I will attach 1/2" conduit (metal pipe). The Strings will drop down from this conduit.

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o are posts, The longer side of the C is 20' the shorter sides would be about 5-7'

What do you think about the stability of the structure, Any other ideas?

The posts will be in a 5 gallon bucket half filled with cement. (the remaining half will be grow media and bee attracting flowers will be planted in those buckets)
I am considering three options for posts
1. metal - would like it for strength, durability, light weight but cost is too high
2. wood - 2x4 - pros - strength, cheap - cons - heavy, would rot in 10 years
3. pvc pipe - 1.5 inch schedule 40 - pros - cheap, durable, light - cons - not strong enough, will bend easily

I am liking the pvc pipe option, may be going to 2 inch would give me enough strength? Anyone used pvc pipes as posts? Any other materials that might work?

Thanks

[saltmarsh]

I use this for tomatoes, pole beans, and cucumbers. Claud

http://tomatoville.com/showpost.php?...76&postcount=3

[tnkrer]

Thanks Claud.
I think that should work for me as well. instead of cement buckets, drive 12" thinwall metal conduit and put 8' of 1 inch schedule 40 pvc pipe (or conduit whichever is stiffer) in it. (So I will get 7 ft of height )
I don't expect 50 mph wind in my backyard. (area is protected by trees and my house)
Last year my 1/2" schedule 40 PVC pipe had bent completely by the weight of the cukes and tomatoes. So that is my worry. But you say you use the same for tomatos too .. so I am going to try that.

I did see the image for the top attachment detail. So while the piece shown in the image will fit between two poles, How can you make a line across multiple posts? So lets say I have 3 posts. The "legs" of the top fit in post 1 and post 2. How do I put a top between post 2 and post 3?

As I am reading about beans, I read that I should not plant tomatoes with beans. I have severe space constraints. This is my only in ground space. So what can I plant with beans, are cucumbers OK? I might still plant a tomato there, if I do that, is there a variety that likes the extra N?

[Worth1]

Okay instead of redesigning everything I will go with your idea.

One do not use 1/2 EMT conduit to span 10 feet use at least 3/4 EMT.
You might as well make it all 3/4.
What the heck you are only going to use 3 sticks so go one inch.
Use the 2 inch PVC in the buckets not the 1 1/2.

Now you need to clean the PVC Pipe with a solvent to remove the oils from manufacturing and paint it with a paint made for plastic.
You need to do the same with the buckets too.
This will stop the UV light from breaking them down.

Next how to attach the conduit to the PVC there are a few options.
Option number one.
Drill holes in the PVC so the conduit will slip through.

Option number two.
Learn how to lash PVC and conduit together with twine.

Option three.
Find fittings the will allow you to connect the conduit to the PVC pipe.
The nominal outside diamiter of 3/4 EMT conduit is 0.922.
This option will raise the price up too much due to having to find all of the fittings that would work.

The EMT conduit you can get fittings for pretty cheap.
Use 2 of these to connect the 5 foot EMT to the 10 foot EMT.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-3-4...4407/100111131

Use 1 of these to connect the 2 sticks of 10 foot EMT.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-3-4...6282/202288508




Worth

[luigiwu]

Someone posted their garden on here and I saved it because I liked it so much (see below). I'm sorry I forgot who. Its simple and beautiful in its simplicity.

The other thing I like is the support from the the mittleider grow system. LDSPrepper has TONS of videos about how to built it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605Jo4WBoes

[AlittleSalt]

luigiwu, it is a nice picture. I'm interested in learning new techniques for supporting tomato plants - that one looks good.

[clkeiper]

Truly, I don't think the buckets with concrete in them are going to stay upright once there are plants putting all their weight on the strings. I think you would be surprised at how heavy the vines get to be. They really need anchored in the ground.

[tnkrer]

Carolyn, I am going with Calud's design for most part. Its field tested and easy enough to build. So most of the posts will be anchored in ground. One of the legs of the C runs on the patio, so I cannot get the posts in ground. Those two posts will be done in a bucket and will use the design that Worth has suggested.
The posts on the patio are not for growing plants between them. I plan to let the plants grow across once they reach the top of the post. So the top of the C will have twine going between the top conduit and it will let the plants grow even more.

Luigiwu .. Its a nice system, but I wanted to stay away from wood since its heavy and rots over time. (also PVC is cheaper)

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm going to try something similar, except I want to suspend a nylon wildlife netting instead of string. I have used it as fence material before. It's more like bird netting.

If I build anything out of plastic, I will use the gray EMT conduit. It has UV-inhibitors in it already.

[tnkrer]

Claud, I don't have a large vise to close the end of the thin wall metal conduit. (I have a rockwell jaw horse). How much force is needed to close that metal conduit? Any other ways to close the conduit?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by tnkrer

Claud, I don't have a large vise to close the end of the thin wall metal conduit. (I have a rockwell jaw horse). How much force is needed to close that metal conduit? Any other ways to close the conduit?

Why do you need to close the end of the conduit?

A big hammer works.


Worth

[saltmarsh]

Originally Posted by tnkrer

Claud, I don't have a large vise to close the end of the thin wall metal conduit. (I have a rockwell jaw horse). How much force is needed to close that metal conduit? Any other ways to close the conduit?

The vice makes closing the end easier and more uniform, but a 4 lb. shop hammer and any thick piece of steel will do for the few you have to do. Place the end of the conduit on the steel and hit it a couple of times with the hammer, flip the conduit over and hit it a couple of times on the other side. Repeat until the end is closed.

Closing the end keeps dirt out as you drive it into the ground, but more importantly it wedges the end of the plastic pipe when you drop it into the metal point making it nearly impossible to pull out.

Use PVC (grey) Conduit for your posts. It only cost a few cents more and because it is UV resistant will last for about 7 years of continuous use or about 12 years if you store it in the dark after each season.

The posts are fairly easy to remove if you jiggle them back and forth while lifting straight up. When the wind blows it pushes sideways locking the posts in the points.

Drive your points into the ground where you want them. Join the sections of conduit for the top together using the couplings (the metal conduit will have either a black line down the length or a flat spot, line these up when you join the sections together. This will let you attach your pegs so they all point in the same direction.). Any of the big box stores can bend the conduit for you if you don't have a bender (that way you don't have to worry about the corners).

Lay the assembled conduit on top of the points and mark the conduit where the pegs need to be. Use a spring loaded center punch to keep your drill bit from drifting. Install the pegs on the conduit. Drop the posts into the points then slip the pegs into the ends of the posts. It doesn't have to be perfect, close will do just fine. It is a very forgiving system. Claud

One other thing. When you drive the points into the ground, place a wood board on top of the point to protect the point from being damaged or deformed by the hammer (the point below was closed using the hammer method described above).

[tnkrer]

built the bucket posts this weekend. Most of the posts will be in the ground, but for a few where there is patio .. these will work

[tnkrer]

Claud, one question about the top line. Your description says 1/2 inch thinwall. So I assume it would be metal conduit. But the picture you have attached -> http://tomatoville.com/attachment.ph...7&d=1423936767 seems to show PVC pipe. Have you used both and do you prefer the metal conduit for top? PVC seems to be easier (lighter) to work with

[saltmarsh]

That picture was taken when I first started using this system and is only to show how the pegs are attached to the top rail. The rail in the picture joined 2 rows together and 1/2" metal conduit was fastened on top of the rail with cable ties up and down the length of the rows. The plants were supported by springs attached to the conduit and tomato clips. No problem with the conduit supporting the tomatoes this way, but I had problems with string failure on several plants when the stems were fully loaded with mature fruit. That can be disappointing.

Now I attach the pegs to the 1/2" metal conduit. It's purpose is to keep the posts 4' apart (my post spacing) and the ground does the same thing at the bottom. (for your posts in buckets, just attach a piece of conduit from the bucket post to a ground post with self-tapping hex screws to lock it in place at the bottom.)

I use vegetable netting as you can see in the picture. The netting is 59" high and is attached to the posts using nylon cable ties. One at the top of the netting, one at the bottom of the netting and one in the middle. Except for the end posts where the netting has a cable tie every 6 inches. The netting is attached to the posts starting 10" from the ground; this makes it easy to hoe and weedeat around the posts and plants without the netting getting in the way. The netting stops about 6" from the top of the posts and is not attached to the top rail at all. When the plants are attached to the trellis thier weight is transfered to the posts, not the top rail.

This is the third year for the trellis (it's uv resistant and doesn't stretch) and it is still as good as new. I use it for pole beans, cucumbers, and tomatoes.

With pole beans I plant on both sides of the trellis so the weight is about the same on both sides of the posts. The trellis verticals are 5" apart so I plant the beans 2 seed per hill with 10" between hills and offset the hills on the mating row by 5". I don't thin the hills. The beans will for the most part find the trellis and start climbing it on their own as soon as they start putting out runners. The few that don't find the trellis just need a little help when their runners get long enough to stick the runner through the trellis. This is so much easier than stringing beans, there's no comparison. I don't use any fertilizer on the beans. Excess fertilizer will give you a crop of vines instead of beans. The beans will grow to the top of the trellis and produce a crop of beans. Leave them alone for a couple of weeks after this crop then water and they will grow back down to the ground and produce a second crop and should still be making beans when frost hits.

For cucumbers I also plant a row on each side of the trellis. 2 seeds per hill and 10" between hills with mating rows staggered 5". When the hills of cucumbers have their first true leaves, I thin to one plant per hill unless there is a skip in the row, then I leave 2 plants in the hill to cover the skip. What I want is 2 rows of cucumbers with mostly 1 plant per hill 10" apart. As the cucumbers grow, I remove all suckers and use a tomato clip to attach the plants to the trellis. One plant pruned to a single stem for each vertical with plants from different rows on
the next vertical. Doing it this way the plants grow from 3 to 5 inches per day depending on the amount of sunshine. The tomato clips are reused and moved up the trellis to guide the growing tip. Each leaf node will produce a fruit cluster, a sucker and a finger which the plant uses to attach itself to the trellis. Again I don't use any fertilizer with cucumbers. The only problem with doing it this way is when they start producing they have to be picked twice a day to keep them from getting too big from one day to the next. I spray every week to ten days with a garlic, pepper and sage tea with horsetail tea and lacto baccillis inocculant added to protect new growth, control insects, and prevent mildew and disease. Grass and weeds are allowed to grow in the middles to act as a trap crop for insects but are removed from the beds until the cucumbers are established and dominant, then the grass and weeds are allowed to grow on the beds as well to act as a living mulch, trap crop and become the next crop's fertilizer. Bugs have to eat too, give them something other than your vegetables and everyone can be happy. Claud