Input on potential crosses?

[johno]

I have a few dozen heirloom tomatoes, more if you count cherry types, growing this year. I want to cross a few of them, but I know how much room it takes to grow them out in the future, so I'd like to narrow it down. Your input on which ones might be the most worthwhile will be appreciated.

Joya de Oaxaca X Yellow Peacevine (stability unknown)
Joya de Oaxaca X Esther's Cherry
Joya de Oaxaca X Yellow Giant Belgium
Joya de Oaxaca X Hillbilly
Joya de Oaxaca X Black Krim
Joya de Oaxaca X Watermelon Beefsteak PL

Black Krim X Black Cherry
Black Krim X Cherokee Purple
Black Krim X Peacevine
Black Krim X Watermelon Beefsteak PL
Black Krim X Hillbilly

Grrr... I'm being called away. That's enough, I guess...

[vegomatic]

Just do what connects for you! I love Sungold's flavor, but would like a bigger size. I tried a few crosses this season, but none of them took. Maybe I will try again, but mostly, I am too busy this year to devote much attention to the project.

It doesn't necessarily take a lot of space, if you have several seasons in which to do the growouts. It's definitely more hit or miss with just planting a few seeds of each instead of dozens, but I've had some success in the course of three or so seasons with just planting a few seeds each of my various tests.

-Ed

[johno]

I got a little carried away with the possibilities...

And thanks for the advice, Ed.

I've narrowed my focus a bit since the original post. Has anyone tried any of these Cherokee Purple crosses before?

CP x Watermelon Beefsteak
CP x Joya de Oaxaca
CP x Black Krim
CP x Yellow Giant Belgium

Or anything similar?

I saw some pics recently of a CP x Brandywine that left me salivating...

[PNW_D]

Not familiar with joya de oaxaca - so here is the googled description: tri-colored beefsteak, green shoulders, yellow body, red flame at blossom end; very good flavor but irregular and huge.

This is different from Oaxacan Jewel - right?

[johno]

It translates literally "Jewel of Oaxaca," which could very well be the same as Oaxacan Jewel? The description you posted is typical of the ones I'm growing, though they aren't entirely irregular.

[dice]

"CP x Black Krim"

This one probably has the potential to produce
offspring with the best flavor, but I don't see how
you improve on either CP or BK by crossing
them together. You probably end up with something
like Carbon or Paul Robeson or a slightly smaller
Cherokee Chocolate with subtly different flavor
(and you could just grow those instead).

"CP x Joya de Oaxaca"

This one has possibilities for unusual color and
shape, good flavor, etc. If Joya de Oaxaca is like
most cultivars from Mexico, it is probably quite
late maturing, and if you get offspring with a DTM
closer to CP that still taste great, that is an
improvement.

"CP x Watermelon Beefsteak
CP x Yellow Giant Belgium"

I don't know anything about these two. Mild
flavored? Productivity? Is it just size that makes
them interesting as potential parent strains?
Want to improve the flavor while still getting
big fruit? Feel free to experiment.

I would caution against making any judgements
based on the flavor of the F1 hybrid generation.
"Keep or toss" is an F2, F3, or F4 decision, when
you have a better idea of what the range of
flavors is going to be. If you have offspring that
is productive and robust and interesting-looking
but a little bland, you could cross the best F2
or F3 back to CP again to maybe improve the flavor.

[johno]

CPxBlack Krim... point taken. Think I'll just try Paul Robeson...

CPx Joya de Oaxaca - Color and flavor variations are the idea here. I wouldn't be disappointed if Joya increased the size a bit... Joya was actually quite earlier than CP to produce fruit for me, and it is definitely more prolific.

Watermelon Beefsteak and Yellow Giant Belgium are interesting to me because of their flavors.

WB (mine are actually a stabilized pink to purple colored PL, not exactly the description you'd find in, say, TGS...) has a good balance of acid and sweet, and happens to be fairly early and prolific.

YGB is late and miserly (at first,) but has large, almost orange fruits with great texture and flavor. They taste a little "pumpkiny" when fully ripe, unique. Also, they plants are rather robust.

Any more thoughts?

[dice]

"Any more thoughts?"

Yeah. Paul Robeson is a fine tomato,
but Carbon crosses produced some of
the best-flavored F2 and F3 plants
in the Dwarf Project. Assuming that
you may also be interested in other
experiments in future years, maybe
growing Carbon would give you more
useful potential parent stock than
Paul Robeson.

Flavor is mostly random chance,
of course, but the genes that
produce Carbon's flavor may tend
more toward dominant genes than
than those of many other good-tasting
cultivars.

(This might be true of Galina, too. I have
an RL cherry that came up out of Galina
seeds, kind of small leaves, spindly stems,
etc. But the fruit is still a yellow cherry,
and the flavor still has a real snap to it.
Seems to be sensitive to ripeness. A little
overripe and they become sweeter but without
the impact flavor of fruit that are picked
with green shoulders and ripened on a counter.)

I live in the NW, so crossing anything earlier
than CP with it that still has size, productivity,
and good flavor sounds like a good idea to me.