Open pollination question?

Master Shake · March 9, 2021

Hi growers,

Just a question about open pollination.... i have read about some tomato varieties that have the stigma protruding from the flower and thus able to easily cross pollinated by bees etc.

What about other varieties though?

If i wanted to keep seeds from a variety i would usually put a fruit protection bag over the flower cluster before they open to prevent cross pollination, but is that necessary?

I want to save seeds from a variety but i didn't put a bag over the flowers cluster.... is there a chance of cross pollination? If so, is it very slim?

Just want to know if the seeds are going to be the same, or at least highly likely.

Thanks.

jmsieglaff · March 10, 2021

I'd say it is highly likely your seeds will be true and not crossed. It really depends on the type of insects you have visiting your tomato flowers and as you mention the variety and it's flower structures. I do not bag blossoms, I've been saving seeds for maybe 8 or 9 years and I have had 2 crosses out of many seed savings. I have a lot of bumblebees and even Halictidae (tiny greenish sweat bees) that are supposed to be very good at crossing tomatoes, but haven't had much of an issue, I do generally try to save seeds from early fruits.

Master Shake · March 10, 2021

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

I'd say it is highly likely your seeds will be true and not crossed. It really depends on the type of insects you have visiting your tomato flowers and as you mention the variety and it's flower structures. I do not bag blossoms, I've been saving seeds for maybe 8 or 9 years and I have had 2 crosses out of many seed savings. I have a lot of bumblebees and even Halictidae (tiny greenish sweat bees) that are supposed to be very good at crossing tomatoes, but haven't had much of an issue, I do generally try to save seeds from early fruits.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

MrBig46 · March 10, 2021

If you use the seeds of unpacked flowers only alone, they will probably be uncrossed. But if you would like to share the shift with someone else, you should point out that they are made of unpacked flowers. This will avoid potentially embarrassing situations.
Vladimír

Master Shake · March 10, 2021

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBig46

If you use the seeds of unpacked flowers only alone, they will probably be uncrossed. But if you would like to share the shift with someone else, you should point out that they are made of unpacked flowers. This will avoid potentially embarrassing situations.
Vladimír

Yes, of course.... i will even consider them as potentially crossed to myself, even if it is highly unlikely.
Thank you.

**nctomatoman** · March 10, 2021

I've found that by focusing in the first few clusters, which set low and early (prior to much if any bee visits/activity), purity even with plants grown closely, no matter what the variety, is excellent. To be sure, bagging unopened blossom clusters with little self made Reemay bags, then removing after tomato formation, is the way to get 100% confidence in pure seed.

JRinPA · March 13, 2021

I have had at least one cross. My Mortgage Lifters started throwing some potato leaves. I had all the seeds saved from ML that year in one bag. The next year my seed map seemed screwy when I had some PL plants in the wrong place in the flat. The next year I tried them and had some PL again. That year I think I threw that bag away, sick of the issues. I never grew any of them out, though one of those years, a cousin took a dozen to plant. I never even heard back how they were, a dozen of those plus other tomatoes and peppers I gave them. No follow up is the easiest way to let me know you don't care and that I don't need to offer you anything else ever again.

But I do miss those ML, good tomatoes. I tried another seed swap packet at one time, but they didn't sprout. Then read about there were different MLs, etc, and moved on.

Back on point, I'm pretty sure they crossed and were not simply seeds from a tomato from the wrong plant. I had three (four?) rows of Florida weave, only about 4 ft between rows, and each row had groups of different tomatoes. ML was next to Stump and Aunt Ginny Purple was near. Probably BW as well. So there were a bunch of PL plants there in bumblebee range. And I would have saved from the nicest, biggest tomatoes, rather than the first to flower.

I don't believe I used a tuning fork that year. The next year I did some tuning fork runs. I would think that is asking for lots of tomatoes, but also asking for crosses. I still haven't found mine. I broke one and bought another but haven't seen it in a couple years.

It makes good sense to save seed from the earliest flowers when there is much less pollen to be traded by accident, but I didn't understand that back then.

March 9, 2021	#1
Master Shake Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: australia Posts: 117	Open pollination question? Hi growers, Just a question about open pollination.... i have read about some tomato varieties that have the stigma protruding from the flower and thus able to easily cross pollinated by bees etc. What about other varieties though? If i wanted to keep seeds from a variety i would usually put a fruit protection bag over the flower cluster before they open to prevent cross pollination, but is that necessary? I want to save seeds from a variety but i didn't put a bag over the flowers cluster.... is there a chance of cross pollination? If so, is it very slim? Just want to know if the seeds are going to be the same, or at least highly likely. Thanks.

March 10, 2021	#6
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I've found that by focusing in the first few clusters, which set low and early (prior to much if any bee visits/activity), purity even with plants grown closely, no matter what the variety, is excellent. To be sure, bagging unopened blossom clusters with little self made Reemay bags, then removing after tomato formation, is the way to get 100% confidence in pure seed. __________________ Craig

March 10, 2021	#2
jmsieglaff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Southern WI Posts: 2,742	I'd say it is highly likely your seeds will be true and not crossed. It really depends on the type of insects you have visiting your tomato flowers and as you mention the variety and it's flower structures. I do not bag blossoms, I've been saving seeds for maybe 8 or 9 years and I have had 2 crosses out of many seed savings. I have a lot of bumblebees and even Halictidae (tiny greenish sweat bees) that are supposed to be very good at crossing tomatoes, but haven't had much of an issue, I do generally try to save seeds from early fruits.

March 10, 2021	#4
MrBig46 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Czech republic Posts: 2,534	If you use the seeds of unpacked flowers only alone, they will probably be uncrossed. But if you would like to share the shift with someone else, you should point out that they are made of unpacked flowers. This will avoid potentially embarrassing situations. Vladimír

March 13, 2021	#7
JRinPA Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: SE PA Posts: 972	I have had at least one cross. My Mortgage Lifters started throwing some potato leaves. I had all the seeds saved from ML that year in one bag. The next year my seed map seemed screwy when I had some PL plants in the wrong place in the flat. The next year I tried them and had some PL again. That year I think I threw that bag away, sick of the issues. I never grew any of them out, though one of those years, a cousin took a dozen to plant. I never even heard back how they were, a dozen of those plus other tomatoes and peppers I gave them. No follow up is the easiest way to let me know you don't care and that I don't need to offer you anything else ever again. But I do miss those ML, good tomatoes. I tried another seed swap packet at one time, but they didn't sprout. Then read about there were different MLs, etc, and moved on. Back on point, I'm pretty sure they crossed and were not simply seeds from a tomato from the wrong plant. I had three (four?) rows of Florida weave, only about 4 ft between rows, and each row had groups of different tomatoes. ML was next to Stump and Aunt Ginny Purple was near. Probably BW as well. So there were a bunch of PL plants there in bumblebee range. And I would have saved from the nicest, biggest tomatoes, rather than the first to flower. I don't believe I used a tuning fork that year. The next year I did some tuning fork runs. I would think that is asking for lots of tomatoes, but also asking for crosses. I still haven't found mine. I broke one and bought another but haven't seen it in a couple years. It makes good sense to save seed from the earliest flowers when there is much less pollen to be traded by accident, but I didn't understand that back then.