Best container mix without pine bark fines?

RT_Peasant · November 20, 2014

Most of the recipes for container potting mix that I've seen on this site and others require the ever-elusive pine bark fines. Unable to find them here, I decided a couple years ago to make my own. I took mini pine bark nuggets, ran them through a mulching lawn mower, screened the results with a 1/2" screen, ran them through the mower again, etc. It made a huge mess and took a lot of time, but I eventually made enough PBF for 2 containers' worth of 5:1:1 mix.

This year, I'm going for 20 containers, and I don't have time to manufacture enough PBF. I'd like to come up with a mix that involves measuring readily available ingredients in a wheelbarrow. I was thinking about either straight Miracle Gro potting mix, potting mix + composted manure, potting mix + perlite, or some combination of the three.

Most of my pots will be 15 gal black plastic nursery pots. I plan to irrigate them with a drip system on a timer. My past experience with containers leads me to believe that I'll have to water them every day. The containers have holes all around the bottom, so I don't think I'll have a problem with standing water, but I'm leery of excessive water rentention and bland tasting tomatoes.

What potting mixes have people had success with, for non-SWC containers, that didn't include pine bark fines?

AKmark · November 20, 2014

I use pro mix, my friend uses promix and adds perlite, another friend uses rockwool, all of us grows and sells tomatoes, cucumbers, eggplant, peppers, etc. Whatever you use it must drain well, it must also be able to retain water. (What gets results is how you feed them).

I did an experiment this year and grew tomatoes in 4 inch containers, they were cuttings from a plant in a 20 gallon container, of course the yield was much less from each plant, but they tasted exactly the same, and the fruits were beautiful. Since they were the same plant, it takes out genetic variables that change taste. Also of note, in those small containers, by the time the fruit was harvested it was just roots, you could barely see any promix at all, so medium alteration changed nothing.
Another friend also comes to mind that grows in a compost mix. He has multiple compost bins that he is constantly adding greens, browns, manure too, he also rotates the dirt stuff too, and he grows nice tomatoes. Both of us grows Early Girls and BrandyBoy, they both taste like EG and BB, and of course those tastes change a little throughout the season too.

There are so many methods used, many work, a few work well. You have to stop and think about the actual needs of the plant in mind, and how can I, as the grower, make that happen in a commonsense manner, since time, money, space, are factors too.

Basically (I know) that most people way over think this stuff, and many kill their plants from love. Also, as you mentioned, over watering certainly washes out taste, it also causes humidity problems in my greenhouses which leads to trouble.

maf · November 20, 2014

I always like to add perlite to potting mix. Really improves the texture of peat based mixes, or indeed any type of potting mix.

Cole_Robbie · November 20, 2014

You need one of these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_409077-270-2...ductId=3799119

If you bought pine bark and ran it through a chipper, it's the same as pine bark fines, right? It seems like everyone can find bark in big chunks, but the fines are much harder to find.

I'm going to try pine needles and old hay this year mixed with composted manure. I have no idea how it will go.

RT_Peasant · November 20, 2014

Thanks, Mark. I'm probably as guilty as any of overthinking these things, and loving my plants to death.

Labradors2 · November 20, 2014

Many thanks Mark for sharing this information and the info from your experiment with us. It is most helpful to know.

I used Pro-Mix (a huge bale) in my cold frames and Pro-Mix for veggies in my 5 tomato containers this year and everything did really well and tasted great.

I'm using Farfard (from a nursery) for my winter container tomatoes. It's one of the better ones and there's not much choice in potting mix varieties in the big box stores, especially in the fall. I don't want to battle fruit flies in Miracle Grow any more!

Linda

heirloomtomaguy · November 20, 2014

I like amazon bloom or roots organic. The amazon bloom is a heavy feeder as in it has alot of organic material so you will have to add perlite. The roots organic has a ton of perlite already in it and is pretty much ready to go. I use both and have had great results. I used to use fox farm ocean forest for years but they have since changed ownership and the quality has gone down dramatically.

KarenO · November 20, 2014

I agree with Mark.. In my opinion, in containers, the potting mix mainly acts as a matrix for roots to grow into. The mix in any pot cannot feed a tomato plant for a season without supplemental fertilizer of one form or another so what you want is something that drains, has a good texture and moisture retention ability and will hold your plant relatively upright in the pot. I have always used peat based potting mixes that contain perlite such as promix and because of a lack of soil borne disease problems I do re-use my potting mix from year to year adding new mix and compost each year to my pots as Mark notes because it "disappears" coir, peat, shredded bark etc all provide the same function really in a potting mix and that is to add structure, pore space and water holding capability to it so you can use what's available in your area to make your own mix with adequate results I think.
For 20 large pots, it will be a very big and laborious job to properly and equally mix that much potting soil. Most times if you investigate local sources of bulk amounts of pre-mixed stuff you can get a deal that would be similar to the cost of the separate components without the work of doing the mixing yourself.
KarenO

kayrobbins · November 20, 2014

The fine pine bark is hard to find and if you do it is expensive. If you go to your local feed store and a bale of pine horse shavings it works fine. It is kiln dried and in my area it is about $6. I mixed it in the soil and used it a a mulch when I planted blueberries and it worked great.

I also noticed they sell the same exact product repackaged as bedding for rabbits at twice the price. Doing a little research and talking with others always helps.

Barb_FL · November 20, 2014

I had many Root Pouch containers of the 5-1-1 mix during the spring season. I was not at all prepared for how much water was needed. This is something to consider if you have to pay for your water; my increase in my water bill was 2 new earthboxes per month. I don't know if using the root pouches which already aerate well would affect it more than your nursery pots though.

I also think because of the amount of water needed, the plants would required more fertilizer. I didn't adjust and they didn't produce well.

For the fall season, I am mainly using Earthboxes for tomatoes- up to 12 now - and some additional homemade ones.

At the end of the season, I dumped all those containers into the huge black bags to solarize and when I reuse the mix for a container now, I add over 60% more Pro-Mix to it. I also add vermiculite to it.

simmran1 · November 21, 2014

RT,

For drainage and permeabilty, it’s difficult to find a best alternative to pine bark fines. Builders (coarse) sand can be incorporated into the mix, along with semi- or fully composted materials.

The use of a Self Watering Container screen w/spout, located at the bottom of the pot may eliminate the drainage issues. Then also look at the drainage holes, inspect for clogging

drew51 · November 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Many thanks Mark for sharing this information and the info from your experiment with us. It is most helpful to know.

I used Pro-Mix (a huge bale) in my cold frames and Pro-Mix for veggies in my 5 tomato containers this year and everything did really well and tasted great.

I'm using Farfard (from a nursery) for my winter container tomatoes. It's one of the better ones and there's not much choice in potting mix varieties in the big box stores, especially in the fall. I don't want to battle fruit flies in Miracle Grow any more!

Linda

I like Fafard a lot myself! But I can get pine bark fines sold as soil conditioner. So make my own mostly. Although for me 5-1-1 is way too dry. 3-1-1 works a lot better for my needs.

solid7 · December 7, 2014

I have a couple of different mixes that I like to make. If you want to get away from pine bark fines for reasons unavailability, that's understandable. (note that I'd prefer the bark if available, but I understand it may not be)

Here's one of my favorites:

60% Peat
20% Coco Coir
20% Perlite

To this, add 1/2 cup per gallon of fresh rabbit manure, up to 10% earthworm castings, and follow package directions of any good organic fertilizer that contains mycos.

ProMix is basically 70% Peat, 30% Perlite, with some wetting agent and Mycos. In my opinion, it's a ton of extra money for things that you may not need, or can get elsewhere. I don't use wetting agents, and as long as you don't let your containers dry out, you'll be fine. Mycos? Organic ferts, myco powder, or just time spent outdoors...

Cole_Robbie · December 7, 2014

I read a recipe I want to try:

7 parts perlite
6 parts vermiculite
5 parts earthworm castings (I will substitute composted cow manure)
1 part guano/azomite/greensand/rock dust.

Perlite hold air, vermiculite holds water (so does peat or coir), the castings/manure are organic matter, and the final element is minerals/micros. My cow manure is dug up from a field and is very active with microscopic life, so I don't think I need mycos. The plants will also get treated with an aerated compost tea made from the manure.

drew51 · December 7, 2014

I like to use Diatomaceous earth instead of vermiculite. DE really does not ever breakdown. Both perlite and vermiculite do eventually. Hard to find the right size though. It is sold as oil absorbent, not the food grade powder, do not use that!
Ultrasorb is the best I found but O'reilly's auto parts stopped carrying it. I have enough on hand for a couple years anyway. I like to recycle in my raised beds, and it makes a great additive there too.

November 20, 2014	#1
RT_Peasant Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 24	Best container mix without pine bark fines? Most of the recipes for container potting mix that I've seen on this site and others require the ever-elusive pine bark fines. Unable to find them here, I decided a couple years ago to make my own. I took mini pine bark nuggets, ran them through a mulching lawn mower, screened the results with a 1/2" screen, ran them through the mower again, etc. It made a huge mess and took a lot of time, but I eventually made enough PBF for 2 containers' worth of 5:1:1 mix. This year, I'm going for 20 containers, and I don't have time to manufacture enough PBF. I'd like to come up with a mix that involves measuring readily available ingredients in a wheelbarrow. I was thinking about either straight Miracle Gro potting mix, potting mix + composted manure, potting mix + perlite, or some combination of the three. Most of my pots will be 15 gal black plastic nursery pots. I plan to irrigate them with a drip system on a timer. My past experience with containers leads me to believe that I'll have to water them every day. The containers have holes all around the bottom, so I don't think I'll have a problem with standing water, but I'm leery of excessive water rentention and bland tasting tomatoes. What potting mixes have people had success with, for non-SWC containers, that didn't include pine bark fines?

November 20, 2014	#2
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	I use pro mix, my friend uses promix and adds perlite, another friend uses rockwool, all of us grows and sells tomatoes, cucumbers, eggplant, peppers, etc. Whatever you use it must drain well, it must also be able to retain water. (What gets results is how you feed them). I did an experiment this year and grew tomatoes in 4 inch containers, they were cuttings from a plant in a 20 gallon container, of course the yield was much less from each plant, but they tasted exactly the same, and the fruits were beautiful. Since they were the same plant, it takes out genetic variables that change taste. Also of note, in those small containers, by the time the fruit was harvested it was just roots, you could barely see any promix at all, so medium alteration changed nothing. Another friend also comes to mind that grows in a compost mix. He has multiple compost bins that he is constantly adding greens, browns, manure too, he also rotates the dirt stuff too, and he grows nice tomatoes. Both of us grows Early Girls and BrandyBoy, they both taste like EG and BB, and of course those tastes change a little throughout the season too. There are so many methods used, many work, a few work well. You have to stop and think about the actual needs of the plant in mind, and how can I, as the grower, make that happen in a commonsense manner, since time, money, space, are factors too. Basically (I know) that most people way over think this stuff, and many kill their plants from love. Also, as you mentioned, over watering certainly washes out taste, it also causes humidity problems in my greenhouses which leads to trouble. Last edited by AKmark; November 20, 2014 at 12:56 PM.

November 20, 2014	#7
heirloomtomaguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: glendora ca Posts: 2,560	I like amazon bloom or roots organic. The amazon bloom is a heavy feeder as in it has alot of organic material so you will have to add perlite. The roots organic has a ton of perlite already in it and is pretty much ready to go. I use both and have had great results. I used to use fox farm ocean forest for years but they have since changed ownership and the quality has gone down dramatically. __________________ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

November 21, 2014	#11
simmran1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Iowa Zone 5 Posts: 305	RT, For drainage and permeabilty, it’s difficult to find a best alternative to pine bark fines. Builders (coarse) sand can be incorporated into the mix, along with semi- or fully composted materials. The use of a Self Watering Container screen w/spout, located at the bottom of the pot may eliminate the drainage issues. Then also look at the drainage holes, inspect for clogging __________________ Tomatovillain

November 20, 2014	#3
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	I always like to add perlite to potting mix. Really improves the texture of peat based mixes, or indeed any type of potting mix.

November 20, 2014	#4
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	You need one of these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_409077-270-2...ductId=3799119 If you bought pine bark and ran it through a chipper, it's the same as pine bark fines, right? It seems like everyone can find bark in big chunks, but the fines are much harder to find. I'm going to try pine needles and old hay this year mixed with composted manure. I have no idea how it will go.

November 20, 2014	#6
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,895	Many thanks Mark for sharing this information and the info from your experiment with us. It is most helpful to know. I used Pro-Mix (a huge bale) in my cold frames and Pro-Mix for veggies in my 5 tomato containers this year and everything did really well and tasted great. I'm using Farfard (from a nursery) for my winter container tomatoes. It's one of the better ones and there's not much choice in potting mix varieties in the big box stores, especially in the fall. I don't want to battle fruit flies in Miracle Grow any more! Linda

November 20, 2014	#8
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	I agree with Mark.. In my opinion, in containers, the potting mix mainly acts as a matrix for roots to grow into. The mix in any pot cannot feed a tomato plant for a season without supplemental fertilizer of one form or another so what you want is something that drains, has a good texture and moisture retention ability and will hold your plant relatively upright in the pot. I have always used peat based potting mixes that contain perlite such as promix and because of a lack of soil borne disease problems I do re-use my potting mix from year to year adding new mix and compost each year to my pots as Mark notes because it "disappears" coir, peat, shredded bark etc all provide the same function really in a potting mix and that is to add structure, pore space and water holding capability to it so you can use what's available in your area to make your own mix with adequate results I think. For 20 large pots, it will be a very big and laborious job to properly and equally mix that much potting soil. Most times if you investigate local sources of bulk amounts of pre-mixed stuff you can get a deal that would be similar to the cost of the separate components without the work of doing the mixing yourself. KarenO

November 20, 2014	#9
kayrobbins Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 820	The fine pine bark is hard to find and if you do it is expensive. If you go to your local feed store and a bale of pine horse shavings it works fine. It is kiln dried and in my area it is about $6. I mixed it in the soil and used it a a mulch when I planted blueberries and it worked great. I also noticed they sell the same exact product repackaged as bedding for rabbits at twice the price. Doing a little research and talking with others always helps.

November 20, 2014	#10
Barb_FL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Indialantic, Florida Posts: 2,000	I had many Root Pouch containers of the 5-1-1 mix during the spring season. I was not at all prepared for how much water was needed. This is something to consider if you have to pay for your water; my increase in my water bill was 2 new earthboxes per month. I don't know if using the root pouches which already aerate well would affect it more than your nursery pots though. I also think because of the amount of water needed, the plants would required more fertilizer. I didn't adjust and they didn't produce well. For the fall season, I am mainly using Earthboxes for tomatoes- up to 12 now - and some additional homemade ones. At the end of the season, I dumped all those containers into the huge black bags to solarize and when I reuse the mix for a container now, I add over 60% more Pro-Mix to it. I also add vermiculite to it.

December 7, 2014	#13
solid7 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Florida (East Central Coast) Posts: 78	I have a couple of different mixes that I like to make. If you want to get away from pine bark fines for reasons unavailability, that's understandable. (note that I'd prefer the bark if available, but I understand it may not be) Here's one of my favorites: 60% Peat 20% Coco Coir 20% Perlite To this, add 1/2 cup per gallon of fresh rabbit manure, up to 10% earthworm castings, and follow package directions of any good organic fertilizer that contains mycos. ProMix is basically 70% Peat, 30% Perlite, with some wetting agent and Mycos. In my opinion, it's a ton of extra money for things that you may not need, or can get elsewhere. I don't use wetting agents, and as long as you don't let your containers dry out, you'll be fine. Mycos? Organic ferts, myco powder, or just time spent outdoors...

December 7, 2014	#15
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I like to use Diatomaceous earth instead of vermiculite. DE really does not ever breakdown. Both perlite and vermiculite do eventually. Hard to find the right size though. It is sold as oil absorbent, not the food grade powder, do not use that! Ultrasorb is the best I found but O'reilly's auto parts stopped carrying it. I have enough on hand for a couple years anyway. I like to recycle in my raised beds, and it makes a great additive there too.