TFF Fertilizer question in container... Is is too soon?

[squirrel789]

Hello,

I planted some indeterminate plants about a week ago, planting them about 14" deep vertically in a large 170 container (Water trough 2'W x 2'D x 6'L with many holes in the bottom). The tops sticking out have been growing, but not much yet with the cool weather, and are now about a foot tall - some a bit less. The thing is, they are already developing flowers near the bottom.

I have a balanced 20-20-20 water soluble I can use and I just got my Texas Tomato Food I ordered. Since the plants are still are so short but are flowering, does anyone have a suggestion as to whether I can start them on the TFF now, or should I give them higher nitrogen fert for more growth first?

The mix is roughly 2 parts good compost, 2 parts peat, 1 part vermiculite, well mixed and topped with large pine chunk mulch. I know there should be some nitrogen from the compost, but I am reading that containers are different and the nutrients drain out quickly with watering.

Thanks for any advice for this first-time container gardener!

[wormgirl]

My opinion is, you could use either at this point. I just got some TTF last week and I don't think it would hurt the plant to use it now. But then again I don't think the 20-20-20 would hurt either. I have used both on my plants, and yes, I used the higher N fertilizer earlier. But I don't think you will be disappointed if you try the TTF either. My plants have exploded in the past week; I am very impressed. If you want to cover all your bases, you could try alternatiing a weak solution of the 20-20-20 with the TTF on alternate feedings for a time. I don't think you need to worry about mixing the TTF up weaker than stated, it's unlikely to burn them.

That's only my opinion. There will be others

[squirrel789]

wormgirl,

Thanks for the reply!

I may be over thinking it, but my plants are really packed pretty tight. I planted based on total container volume more than distance between plants, and some have told me they are way too close together. That is why I am so keen to make sure they are fertilized optimally.

I have another thread here in the container section if you want to see the whole setup/strategy.

A working link is a few posts below.

I look forward to other thoughts and opinions.

[luigiwu]

if they are planted too close togethor, you might want to consider pruning to a single stem, your last link didn't work for me...

[wormgirl]

I'm sure you ARE overthinking it, Squirrel, but that's part of the fun isn't it?

There's no perfect way of doing it, and there are many ways to have success. I did see your other post and I do agree, you packed too many plants in there for optimum growth/ventilation/management and picking. But that does not mean you will not get tomatoes! I did the very same kind of thing my first time (3 plants in a 16"/ 9 gallon pot) but I got lots of delicious tomatoes anyway, and I was so proud of myself. But now I give plants their own pots.

I agree you might want to look at some pruning to prevent the plants from getting way too big to manage.

As you saw, many grow tomatoes in the troughs, but it's a dimension thing. There's lots of gallons of soil, but not a ton of surface area. But it will work and you will be successful!

Here's another current thread on the merits of different formulas. I think if you read through it, you'll see the bottom line is, just about any fertilizing is good (as long as you don't totally overdo it.).
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=36674

For me, I think I'll give my plants a few waterings of plain water, then give them a shot of DynaGro before more TTF...

[squirrel789]

Originally Posted by luigiwu

if they are planted too close togethor, you might want to consider pruning to a single stem, your last link didn't work for me...

Luigiwu,

Sorry about the dead link, I'm still getting the hang of this. If you still want to check it out, I think this link should work:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=36646

I kind of figured I might have to do a single vine at first, but after looking at single vine pics online, the foliage seemed so sparse on many and sun scald is a real thing here where I am. Plus I'd like to try 2 if it doesn't ruin the whole experiment. It's hard to resist the temptation of nearly twice the yield. Then again, maybe that's not how this container will work - again I am learning and appreciate your suggestions. I wish I would have bothered to find this forum before I started this project, as there are things I would have done differently. Either way, I will keep the main thread updated with info and pics and hopefully I won't be too embarrassed by the results...

@Wormgirl,

Thanks for the encouragement and the link. I definitely plan on serious pruning and training these vines to grow as tall and apart as possible to prevent a bushy, suffocated mess. I might have to rethink trellis options though... I'm still working on this part. What I have may work for a bit, but I'm hoping these vines will grow much taller and I can train them further out or apart. I'll see what I can come up with, and of course welcome all suggestions.

And as I obsess over this little garden experiment online almost nightly, I realize you're exactly right. The planning, replanning, building, prep, notes, changes for next year, etc are definitely a HUGE part of the fun. If there was one perfect way to grow tomatoes then this forum wouldn't exist and experimentation would be pointless. I like how you think

Thanks!!

[wormgirl]

I understand. I obsess over things. That's just how I am. Might as well use my powers for good, rather than evil ;-)

I think you can safely leave at least two main vines on each plant. I always leave at least that many. One of the advantages of the trough is that watering stress should be relieved (because it's so big) and you don't really have to worry about it tipping over. I let a plant get way too big last year and it tipped over one day that I didn't water it in the morning. Then I had to water too much -- to make sure the plant stayed upright -- and the flavor was meh. So that's why we prune. (In retrospect, I should have just driven some wooden stakes in around the pot!) But, tipping won't be a concern in your case. Two or even three should be fine (go ahead, live on the edge!)

Every year, I'm like, "I wish for a do-over!" But that is what next year is for. Keeping a journal of successes, failures, and things we will do differently next year is a HUGE help.

[squirrel789]

Wormgirl,

Thanks yet again for your encouragement! The friendliness and sense of open community is what I love about this forum compared to some others I have looked at. I will keep my original container section thread updated with lots of pics/updates, for better or for worse, whenever there is something new worth showing. I guess that's kind of my journal for next year...

I started with the TFF this morning, but it may have been a waste as we got light rain most of the afternoon and I wonder if it just sort of washed out. I can't wait to keep using it and hope it lives up to the hype. I'd love to see some garden/plant pics from you TTF users. I keep hearing really great things about it!

As for tipping over, I couldn't tip one of those troughs over if my life depended on it . I can barely move it on the 6 heavy duty castors it's on. However, I did had some leftover plants (a Sungold and a Supersteak) that I put in 15 gallon pots. I thought I might use some cinder blocks with twine tied to the blocks and then around the container to keep them stable on my patio when wind/storms hit. Perhaps that might help your containers too if you "let one go" again this year. However, if you have them on the ground, stakes would undoubtedly be a much more aesthetically pleasing option.

That does raise another question however... If pruned to a couple of vines (or 3), do you find that the smaller (15 gallon) container indeterminate plants will grow so tall as to become really top heavy later in the season? I have a folding metal cage (another I can wire on top of that one if necessary) and three 8' tomato stakes (about 3/4" diameter) for the supersteak vines to climb. I'm just going to let the Sungold go crazy in a cage, because, well, those always seem to go crazy everywhere no matter what I do anyway

[wormgirl]

I will be following your thread with interest! It's so great to see progress through a whole season, experiment, or whatever. It's cool, not just now - but when people search in the future, they will find your thread then too.

I bet your plants got some benefit from the fert despite the rain. With all that soil in the trough, I can't imagine it all washed away. It's waking up the bacteria in the bottom at the very least. But I bet the plants soaked some of it up!!

My toppling plant last season was in a pot that was about 9 gallons (a 16" terra pot). That's exactly what happened to it - soil was dry, plant was topheavy, gust of wind, pot tips over. I think 15 gallons will make a huge difference in weight, and if you have them anchored as well, you should be fine. I think you will find they will not necessarily be smaller than your trough plants Your support plan sounds totally reasonable.

It sounds as though you have grown tomatoes before, just perhaps not in containers?

[squirrel789]

Originally Posted by wormgirl

I will be following your thread with interest! It's so great to see progress through a whole season, experiment, or whatever. It's cool, not just now - but when people search in the future, they will find your thread then too.

I bet your plants got some benefit from the fert despite the rain. With all that soil in the trough, I can't imagine it all washed away. It's waking up the bacteria in the bottom at the very least. But I bet the plants soaked some of it up!!

My toppling plant last season was in a pot that was about 9 gallons (a 16" terra pot). That's exactly what happened to it - soil was dry, plant was topheavy, gust of wind, pot tips over. I think 15 gallons will make a huge difference in weight, and if you have them anchored as well, you should be fine. I think you will find they will not necessarily be smaller than your trough plants Your support plan sounds totally reasonable.

It sounds as though you have grown tomatoes before, just perhaps not in containers?

You guessed it. Delicious, home-grown tomatoes are a passion for me, but growing them in a container on a patio is totally uncharted territory. For the past 5 years or so I always planted a big 120+ plant tomato garden at my dad's farm with his help/advice, but as he is nearly 80 now he just can't do it anymore. Plus, its over an hour away from where I live, and with work I just can't commit the time to doing a garden there and treating it right. We always planted 50' long rows trench-style in the ground, mulched with lots of stinky cow manure and straw, and used fence posts and cattle panels for support. It worked great and I have canned many, many quarts of home-made salsa and plain tomatoes, not to mention the thick fresh tomato slices with balsamic and the tomato sandwiches (stomach rumbles).

It's the container-style that makes me feel like a total beginner again, and where I live it is all trees and shade, except for the patio, which gets plenty of sun. Hence my first foray into container gardening!

It also feeds my obsession to make my current system work well, because until this year I have been spoiled by having all the great tomatoes I want each summer and having all the space I wanted to try growing any number of hybrids, heirlooms, etc. So, you see my predicament... I've become a home-grown tomato addict And now I've got to make due with a smaller space and unfamiliar methods.

I must say though, I'm learning a lot from you and all the other great people here at TV. Thanks!

[wormgirl]

You are welcome. I haven't been at TV all that long myself, but I also find the community to be great - friendly, welcoming, and very knowledgable. Great, useful info here.

You actually have far more tomato growing experience than I do! Growing with your Dad sounds like such an amazing experience. I have mostly grown them in containers. Like any plant, they really just WANT to grow, so if you give them half a chance... they will!

[squirrel789]

We never did anything at the farm but the occasional pruning and tying the plants to the panels. It was pretty easy! I guess with the flood of info on the web I've read concerning square foot gardening, intensive vertical gardening, soil-less mixes, macro and micro nutrients, etc. I have started to overthink it. Which is fun in it's own right

At the end of the day, you're right, tomatoes will grow just about anywhere, anyhow as long as they have a few basic needs.

True story: I saw a roma tomato vine, maybe 3' long and growing a couple little fruits growing out of a crack in the sidewalk in the alley behind a pizza place I frequent, presumably from a dropped tomato during a delivery. It wasn't exactly healthy, but the idea is still the same. Tomatoes can be survivors, and maybe that is part of what makes them such interesting plants Wow! I'm getting philosophical, it must be getting late or perhaps one too many adult beverages

Anyway, I enjoy this forum a lot and am here far too often than is probably normal... but my plants aren't big enough to start pruning yet, so it helps pass the time

Sorry, I got a bit off topic.

[wormgirl]

We are pathetic, aren't we - posting about tomatoes late on a Sunday night before a Monday off!

The more I read, the more I realize there are so many ways to success. In reference to intensive plantings, I just posted a pic over on your cucumber mulch thread of my cukes & peppers from last season. As you see, it's pretty crammed, but it turned out great and produced a lot of food!

Now you are making me want an adult beverage.

[squirrel789]

Awesome! I'll check it out. I'm curious about cuke trellis systems, but I guess I'll post something over in the appropriate section. I plan to attempt to grow a really good Italian striped zucchini variety in one of these troughs too (Costata Romanesco). They produce the most delicious little zucchini and the blossoms themselves are probably the most delicious part! If you like zucchini you can find the seeds probably anywhere online.

As for late night gardening posts, I don't feel bad too bad. Learning about this kind of stuff brings me more joy than a lot of the other things I do for fun

I am fascinated by the new interest and advancements in small-space gardening, sustainable local and urban produce production, container gardens, or whatever gets us all further away from eating all the processed crap spun mostly of hydrogenated fats, salt, and sugar that is considered normal food to a depressingly large segment of the country. All these things I read and post about make me happy, so who cares!

Thanks for taking time to read and respond to my posts and general ranting.

Cheers!

[wormgirl]

It's totally amazing what's out there. I have seen all kinds of things since last year. Earthtainers. Rain Gutter Grow systems. Growing in Wal-Mart bags. Growing lettuce in canvas pocket shoe organizers. Walls made out of old upturned bottles. And then they are making all sorts of commercial products. Every time I see a perfect wall of herbs in a kitchen picture now, I laugh. They must have some grow lights in the kitchen, LOL.