Cross Talk II

crmauch · May 17, 2015

I thought this was fun last year, so I'd thought I'd do it again. This is to discuss what you're doing in terms of crosses and growouts and what ever else you're doing in regards to breeding. The general questions are:

What kind of growouts are you doing (and what are you looking for)?
Did any of your plans already tank and what are you doing to regroup?
Have you done any "serendipitous" crosses? Things you didn't originally plan, but were spur of the moment or "that might be interesting" thoughts.
Are you having problems with any crosses?
If you have definite plans, how are they going?

What I have planned:
1. Trialing 3 tomatoes from the Cross-Hemisphere Dwarf project
2. A few f2 seeds from my Super Sweet 100 and Golden Jubilee (I've decided on a desultary search for a orange cherry.
3. I've gotten 5 dwarf seedlings out of the f2 seeds of Dwf Stone X San Marzano (I plan to backcross these dwarfs with San Marzano)
4. Growing multiple f1s of hi-beta (97L97 and Jaune Flamme) X paste (Shannon, Opalka and Heidi).
5. Growing f1 of a Tasti-Lee (f3) and Heidi
6. May try crossing Matt's Wild Cherry and Abraham Lincoln with a paste (Shannon or Opalka)
7. Now on f3 of my Husky Gold dehybridization
8. Hoping to use White Queen and Amethyst Cream in a cross.

What do you have going?

bower · May 17, 2015

Sounds like you have an interesting year lined up. Hope it goes well.

I just couldn't help myself when it came time to sow the F2 seeds - I like the term "desultory search" because now I'm growing small numbers of some several F2's, and hoping to get lucky.. or take years and years...

. oh well. So be it.

I still seeded far more than I have room for in the greenhouse, and the fate of the extras is not yet decided - some have found a 'high density' solution. I want lots of cherries this summer cause some dear friends are getting married, so I was happy to have lots of cherry crosses in the list to grow for a mix of colours and shapes.

Since earliness is a trait important to me, I got right down to it and selected the earliest for greenhouse places. This in itself was super exciting and gave me hours of enjoyment already.

I'm seeing a lot of earliness in my F2's, even where it wasn't expected.

Another general goal is to develop some breeding lines with semi-determinate growth habit. I have three crosses growing involving determinate or semi-determinate parents, and I'm paying close attention to growth habit in the F2, F3 involved as well as the semi-determinate parent ZS and a couple of determinate OP's also growing this year. I know there's a lot of variation in "determinate" habits and this time around I want to start to figure out the details. I've started by marking the 7th leaf with a bit of blue thread at the time of transplant, as this is when I start to lose leaves and lose count. Also taking pix as the early clusters emerge, because once they get bushy it's too hard to see.

I have three different crosses involving Eva Purple Ball growing this year - an F1 of EPB X PI120256, an F2 of Kimberley X EPB - PL-1 which flowered today 54 days from germination (thank you, Fusion Power!) and an F? of Margie's EPBXBigBeef (thank you Dutch!). Two F2 crosses involving Indian Stripe, both with early flowers on one or more plants. Two crosses with precocious flowering in the F2s, involving big hearted Russian OP's which came from Marina Russian (thank you Marina!)....

Not sure where the year will take me, but I'm already having fun..

Fusion_power · May 17, 2015

46 plants of the Sunlucky line in search of a 4 to 6 ounce super sweet super flavorful salad tomato

16 plants each of 3 lines that segregate for late blight and early blight tolerance. I'm looking for a blight tolerant Brandywine

A dozen varieties specifically to make crosses. This includes KBX, Jaune Flamme, 3 wild species with disease tolerance, Tastiheart, LA3969 for cold tolerance, etc.

ChrisK · May 17, 2015

haha! Too many for a comprehensive list and way too many for this tiny downtown yard!

A few:
Searching for a good dwarf multiflora in the F3 (my focus this year).
The micro selections are continuing in pots at various F gens.
Tons of new crosses incl. some for Dar with his disease resistant species.
Crosses with a whitefly resistant accession.
More F2 seed production for dwarfs and micros next year.

Let me know how the Dwarf Stone x San Marzano cross does for you! I'm growing some of the F1 this year for seed production.

**carolyn137** · May 17, 2015

involving big hearted Russian OP's which came from Marina Russian (thank you Marina!)....

&&&&&

Bower, are you or anyone you know still in touch with Marina? We used to trade every year and I've tried to reach her and this was the last I heard from her, just a bit of her e-mail, last February of 2014,

(I just got lots of stuff going on, as usual. To be honest, I forget to check the mail. My son has started school, so it's constant homework and projects in the evenings. Our school program is so harsh for the kids.
š
I'm still crazy about tomatoes, just don't have the time to šstart any, just yet.
š
About trading, I had a bad tomato season, that's why I'm not trading much this year. Hopefully this summer will be much better.)

Just concerned about her personally re the events taking place near where she lives.

Carolyn

bower · May 17, 2015

Carolyn, sadly no, I haven't heard from Marina in ages... didn't know about the bad season.

It's good to know she was tied up with her kids and such, but I hope none of that scary area stuff is too near her door.

I keep hoping to see her post again, mentioned her because I miss her, too.

KarenO · May 17, 2015

Growing out my 3 F3 PL heart selections, a black, a dark pink and a bicolour. Excited to see how they turn out this year! Considering trying another cross aiming for an early PL cherry next time I might take a stab at it this year... will see what happens. I have an idea for the parents but have to do a bit more research.
KO

PaddyMc · May 18, 2015

My hybrid grow outs this year are -

African Queen x Porkchop F3
Amazon Chocolate x Orange Orangutan PL F1
Ananas Noir x Sungold F3
Bammers Luck
Bianca Grande x (Maya and Sions x JD's Special C-Tex) F3
(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme F2
[(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange)F1 F1
[(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink)F1 F1
Cherokee Green x Sungold F4
Cowlick Brandywine x Sungold F3
Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange F1
The Dude F4
Ernie's Plump x Coyote (white cherry) F3
(Ernie's Plump x Coyote) x (Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir) F2
Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir F3
Ernie's Plump x Coyote F3
(Ernie's Plump x Porkchop) x Dester's F2
Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon F2
(Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon) x [(Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint)] F1
Indigo Rose x Ananas Noir F3
Indian Zebra x Purple Dragon F2
(Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint) F2
Kathryn's (Stupice x Purple Dog Creek) F3
KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink F2
Lithium Sunset x Indigo Rose F3
(Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Cherokee Lime Stripe F2
(Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Hippie Zebra F2
Mason Dixon F4?
Maya and Sions x (Lillian's Yellow Heirloom x GWR Wildthyme) F1
McClintock's Yellow OT F2?
My Brandywine x Mary Robinson BC F1
My Brandywine x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1
Not Supriz
(Opalka x My Brandywine) x Bianca Grande F3
Purple Dragon x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1
(Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir) x Bosque Green Cherry F2
Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir F3
Piennolo x Jim Dandy PL F1
Q15 F5?
Quetzalcoatl Cherry F5
Siberian Tiger Pink x ? (tag got destroyed)
(Sungold x Mikado White) x Lithium Sunset F3
(Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Ananas Noir F3
Steelhead (My Brandywine x Ananas Noir) F3
(Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Pink Boar F3
V2 pink cherry, antho spots F3?
V11 yellow cherry F3
Varigated Potato Leaf x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink) Fq
White Zebra x Damascus Steel F2

550 plants total spread among the above.
My main crossing goals this year mostly involve wild stuff - L. Columbianum in particular. And peppers. Lots of pepper crosses.

crmauch · May 19, 2015

Wow. Just wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyMc

My hybrid grow outs this year are -

African Queen x Porkchop F3
Amazon Chocolate x Orange Orangutan PL F1
Ananas Noir x Sungold F3
Bammers Luck
Bianca Grande x (Maya and Sions x JD's Special C-Tex) F3
(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme F2
[(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange)F1 F1
[(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink)F1 F1
Cherokee Green x Sungold F4
Cowlick Brandywine x Sungold F3
Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange F1
The Dude F4
Ernie's Plump x Coyote (white cherry) F3
(Ernie's Plump x Coyote) x (Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir) F2
Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir F3
Ernie's Plump x Coyote F3
(Ernie's Plump x Porkchop) x Dester's F2
Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon F2
(Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon) x [(Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint)] F1
Indigo Rose x Ananas Noir F3
Indian Zebra x Purple Dragon F2
(Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint) F2
Kathryn's (Stupice x Purple Dog Creek) F3
KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink F2
Lithium Sunset x Indigo Rose F3
(Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Cherokee Lime Stripe F2
(Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Hippie Zebra F2
Mason Dixon F4?
Maya and Sions x (Lillian's Yellow Heirloom x GWR Wildthyme) F1
McClintock's Yellow OT F2?
My Brandywine x Mary Robinson BC F1
My Brandywine x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1
Not Supriz
(Opalka x My Brandywine) x Bianca Grande F3
Purple Dragon x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1
(Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir) x Bosque Green Cherry F2
Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir F3
Piennolo x Jim Dandy PL F1
Q15 F5?
Quetzalcoatl Cherry F5
Siberian Tiger Pink x ? (tag got destroyed)
(Sungold x Mikado White) x Lithium Sunset F3
(Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Ananas Noir F3
Steelhead (My Brandywine x Ananas Noir) F3
(Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Pink Boar F3
V2 pink cherry, antho spots F3?
V11 yellow cherry F3
Varigated Potato Leaf x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink) Fq
White Zebra x Damascus Steel F2

550 plants total spread among the above.
My main crossing goals this year mostly involve wild stuff - L. Columbianum in particular. And peppers. Lots of pepper crosses.

PaddyMc · May 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmauch

Wow. Just wow.

Thanks

The danger of getting into crossing veggies is that you can end up with a ridiculously over-stuffed greenhouse.

heirloomtomaguy · May 19, 2015

Dang Paddy that some serious selecting you are going to be doing.

bower · May 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmauch

Wow. Just wow.

Ditto! Tomato artist with big giant canvas... look out world!

crmauch · May 19, 2015

How long does it take you to get all that planted out? I find that that's sometimes a major bottleneck for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyMc

The danger of getting into crossing veggies is that you can end up with a ridiculously over-stuffed greenhouse.

PaddyMc · May 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmauch

How long does it take you to get all that planted out? I find that that's sometimes a major bottleneck for me.

I recruit help. But about 3 days.

**carolyn137** · May 19, 2015

Paddy, do you have a full time job and doing crosses is your hobby, or what?

I just want to speak to your mention of Columbianum with a few links,

First, the proverbial Google search'

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...mbianum+tomato

Next this link where they aren't sure what they have:

https://www.adaptiveseeds.com/tomato...ldform-organic

And now the most important link from the SSE message site many years ago:

http://forums.seedsavers.org/forum/g...-l-colombianum

See especially post #8 by Suze as well as the one by Keith Mueller who was then posting as OLTV or something like that,

Hope this helps put things in perspective, and there's info elsewhere that Gerhard Bohl in Germany also listed it by it's older name as he did for other older named ones that now have new names.

Carolyn

May 17, 2015	#1
crmauch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Honey Brook, PA Zone 6b Posts: 399	Cross Talk II I thought this was fun last year, so I'd thought I'd do it again. This is to discuss what you're doing in terms of crosses and growouts and what ever else you're doing in regards to breeding. The general questions are: What kind of growouts are you doing (and what are you looking for)? Did any of your plans already tank and what are you doing to regroup? Have you done any "serendipitous" crosses? Things you didn't originally plan, but were spur of the moment or "that might be interesting" thoughts. Are you having problems with any crosses? If you have definite plans, how are they going? What I have planned: 1. Trialing 3 tomatoes from the Cross-Hemisphere Dwarf project 2. A few f2 seeds from my Super Sweet 100 and Golden Jubilee (I've decided on a desultary search for a orange cherry. 3. I've gotten 5 dwarf seedlings out of the f2 seeds of Dwf Stone X San Marzano (I plan to backcross these dwarfs with San Marzano) 4. Growing multiple f1s of hi-beta (97L97 and Jaune Flamme) X paste (Shannon, Opalka and Heidi). 5. Growing f1 of a Tasti-Lee (f3) and Heidi 6. May try crossing Matt's Wild Cherry and Abraham Lincoln with a paste (Shannon or Opalka) 7. Now on f3 of my Husky Gold dehybridization 8. Hoping to use White Queen and Amethyst Cream in a cross. What do you have going?

May 17, 2015	#2
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Sounds like you have an interesting year lined up. Hope it goes well. I just couldn't help myself when it came time to sow the F2 seeds - I like the term "desultory search" because now I'm growing small numbers of some several F2's, and hoping to get lucky.. or take years and years.... oh well. So be it. I still seeded far more than I have room for in the greenhouse, and the fate of the extras is not yet decided - some have found a 'high density' solution. I want lots of cherries this summer cause some dear friends are getting married, so I was happy to have lots of cherry crosses in the list to grow for a mix of colours and shapes. Since earliness is a trait important to me, I got right down to it and selected the earliest for greenhouse places. This in itself was super exciting and gave me hours of enjoyment already. I'm seeing a lot of earliness in my F2's, even where it wasn't expected. Another general goal is to develop some breeding lines with semi-determinate growth habit. I have three crosses growing involving determinate or semi-determinate parents, and I'm paying close attention to growth habit in the F2, F3 involved as well as the semi-determinate parent ZS and a couple of determinate OP's also growing this year. I know there's a lot of variation in "determinate" habits and this time around I want to start to figure out the details. I've started by marking the 7th leaf with a bit of blue thread at the time of transplant, as this is when I start to lose leaves and lose count. Also taking pix as the early clusters emerge, because once they get bushy it's too hard to see. I have three different crosses involving Eva Purple Ball growing this year - an F1 of EPB X PI120256, an F2 of Kimberley X EPB - PL-1 which flowered today 54 days from germination (thank you, Fusion Power!) and an F? of Margie's EPBXBigBeef (thank you Dutch!). Two F2 crosses involving Indian Stripe, both with early flowers on one or more plants. Two crosses with precocious flowering in the F2s, involving big hearted Russian OP's which came from Marina Russian (thank you Marina!).... Not sure where the year will take me, but I'm already having fun..

May 17, 2015	#4
ChrisK Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,448	haha! Too many for a comprehensive list and way too many for this tiny downtown yard! A few: Searching for a good dwarf multiflora in the F3 (my focus this year). The micro selections are continuing in pots at various F gens. Tons of new crosses incl. some for Dar with his disease resistant species. Crosses with a whitefly resistant accession. More F2 seed production for dwarfs and micros next year. Let me know how the Dwarf Stone x San Marzano cross does for you! I'm growing some of the F1 this year for seed production. __________________ Blog: chriskafer.wordpress.com Ignorance more frequently begets knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. --Charles Darwin

May 17, 2015	#5
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	involving big hearted Russian OP's which came from Marina Russian (thank you Marina!).... &&&&& Bower, are you or anyone you know still in touch with Marina? We used to trade every year and I've tried to reach her and this was the last I heard from her, just a bit of her e-mail, last February of 2014, (I just got lots of stuff going on, as usual. To be honest, I forget to check the mail. My son has started school, so it's constant homework and projects in the evenings. Our school program is so harsh for the kids. š I'm still crazy about tomatoes, just don't have the time to šstart any, just yet. š About trading, I had a bad tomato season, that's why I'm not trading much this year. Hopefully this summer will be much better.) Just concerned about her personally re the events taking place near where she lives. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

May 19, 2015	#11
heirloomtomaguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: glendora ca Posts: 2,560	Dang Paddy that some serious selecting you are going to be doing. __________________ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

May 17, 2015	#3
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	46 plants of the Sunlucky line in search of a 4 to 6 ounce super sweet super flavorful salad tomato 16 plants each of 3 lines that segregate for late blight and early blight tolerance. I'm looking for a blight tolerant Brandywine A dozen varieties specifically to make crosses. This includes KBX, Jaune Flamme, 3 wild species with disease tolerance, Tastiheart, LA3969 for cold tolerance, etc.

May 17, 2015	#7
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	Growing out my 3 F3 PL heart selections, a black, a dark pink and a bicolour. Excited to see how they turn out this year! Considering trying another cross aiming for an early PL cherry next time I might take a stab at it this year... will see what happens. I have an idea for the parents but have to do a bit more research. KO

May 18, 2015	#8
PaddyMc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 241	My hybrid grow outs this year are - African Queen x Porkchop F3 Amazon Chocolate x Orange Orangutan PL F1 Ananas Noir x Sungold F3 Bammers Luck Bianca Grande x (Maya and Sions x JD's Special C-Tex) F3 (Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme F2 [(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange)F1 F1 [(Beauty King x Indigo Rose) x GWR Wildthyme]F1 x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink)F1 F1 Cherokee Green x Sungold F4 Cowlick Brandywine x Sungold F3 Damascus Steel x Mikado Orange F1 The Dude F4 Ernie's Plump x Coyote (white cherry) F3 (Ernie's Plump x Coyote) x (Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir) F2 Ernie's Plump x Ananas Noir F3 Ernie's Plump x Coyote F3 (Ernie's Plump x Porkchop) x Dester's F2 Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon F2 (Hippie Zebra x Purple Dragon) x [(Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint)] F1 Indigo Rose x Ananas Noir F3 Indian Zebra x Purple Dragon F2 (Indigo Rose x Vernissage Pink) x Peppermint) F2 Kathryn's (Stupice x Purple Dog Creek) F3 KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink F2 Lithium Sunset x Indigo Rose F3 (Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Cherokee Lime Stripe F2 (Lithium Sunset x Pink Boar) x Hippie Zebra F2 Mason Dixon F4? Maya and Sions x (Lillian's Yellow Heirloom x GWR Wildthyme) F1 McClintock's Yellow OT F2? My Brandywine x Mary Robinson BC F1 My Brandywine x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1 Not Supriz (Opalka x My Brandywine) x Bianca Grande F3 Purple Dragon x Sweet Sharon Stripes F1 (Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir) x Bosque Green Cherry F2 Pink Furry Boar x Ananas Noir F3 Piennolo x Jim Dandy PL F1 Q15 F5? Quetzalcoatl Cherry F5 Siberian Tiger Pink x ? (tag got destroyed) (Sungold x Mikado White) x Lithium Sunset F3 (Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Ananas Noir F3 Steelhead (My Brandywine x Ananas Noir) F3 (Sungold x Sandul Moldovan) x Pink Boar F3 V2 pink cherry, antho spots F3? V11 yellow cherry F3 Varigated Potato Leaf x (KBX x Siberian Tiger Pink) Fq White Zebra x Damascus Steel F2 550 plants total spread among the above. My main crossing goals this year mostly involve wild stuff - L. Columbianum in particular. And peppers. Lots of pepper crosses.