Upgrading from plastic cups?

[huntoften]

I've been using 8-10 oz opaque plastic cups for several years now to pot up my seedlings for sale. I drill a 1/2 inch hole in them and have had very good luck with them. The only complaint I have is that they tend to tip over fairly easily. I can put 24 of them in a 1020 tray and wedge a few more in if I need to. I write the variety name in the sides of each cup with a sharpie. I pot up around 5,000 plants each spring (tomatoes, peppers, herbs, lettuces, and many others) using Craig's dense planting method.

I'm not one to leave well enough alone and I' thinking about "upgrading" to more professional looking containers. I think these "2401" versions would fit my needs:

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/p...-trays-inserts

I'm thinking I would label the varieties on the rim of the container with a paint type marker as I really don't like using plant tags because they can fall out and then you have no clue what the variety is.

I'm open to any opinions on whether this 24 cell tray is what I need or if there are better options out there. Any advice would be appreciated as I continue to try and improve the quality of the plants I sell.

[recruiterg]

Am I reading this correctly? You would get 24 x 100 = 2400 for $64 or $0.0267 per plant cost? I get 250 cups from Costco for around $0.04 per cup. Seems like a good deal if my math is correct.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by huntoften

I've been using 8-10 oz opaque plastic cups for several years now to pot up my seedlings for sale. I drill a 1/2 inch hole in them and have had very good luck with them. The only complaint I have is that they tend to tip over fairly easily. I can put 24 of them in a 1020 tray and wedge a few more in if I need to. I write the variety name in the sides of each cup with a sharpie. I pot up around 5,000 plants each spring (tomatoes, peppers, herbs, lettuces, and many others) using Craig's dense planting method.

I'm not one to leave well enough alone and I' thinking about "upgrading" to more professional looking containers. I think these "2401" versions would fit my needs:

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/p...-trays-inserts

I'm thinking I would label the varieties on the rim of the container with a paint type marker as I really don't like using plant tags because they can fall out and then you have no clue what the variety is.

I'm open to any opinions on whether this 24 cell tray is what I need or if there are better options out there. Any advice would be appreciated as I continue to try and improve the quality of the plants I sell.

Decide first what height you want your seedlings to be when you transplant them to your garden, or if you are going somewhere to sell them.

Growing vegetable transplants 3-4" tall can be done in the 804 or 806 Inserts. If you are going to sell vegetable plants 4-8" tall go with the 1801 Inserts.

Another Insert that is great for 4-6" heights is the 606 deep cell Insert. The 606 is what is refered to as a 6 Pack and sold by most growers, to retail nurseries.

As per the Web trays, get the Solid sided ones, they will give you better support moving them around the growing area and transporting them for sale somewhere else.

There is one company that sells webtrays with Solid sides and bottoms. I have some still after 20 years of growing herbs, but when I, would go sell the herbs at shows, those trays were replaced with solid side w/ web bottoms.

The web trays that have webbed sides and bottoms, are quite flimsly.

Terry

[Cole_Robbie]

I have used cups, and yes they fall over, which is a pain.

Inserts that fit into a 1020 web flat come in every arrangement. I ordered "sheet of pots 18," which is 3x6, 18 pots to a sheet. They come all attached as a sheet, which makes watering easy for me, because I dunk a flat at a time in a bin of water. BUT before you take them to market, you have to cut apart the sheet of pots, which is a huge pain and time-waster. I tend to get potting mix on the crease and can't see where to cut. After they are cut, they are only a little more stable than the cups. They still flop everywhere when I try to dunk them in water.

The generic brand of solo cups in the big pack was I think about ten bucks at Sam's. It came out to about four cents a cup. The sheet pots only beat that price by a tiny amount, about half a cent.

Hummert is the supplier I use:
http://www.hummert.com/ProductList.a...tle=Containers

[huntoften]

Recruiter....yes, I think I did that same math and thought it was a good deal. I did the costco cups for years, but found them cheaper at restockit.com. their cups aren't as sturdy as the costco ones, but they are tough enough to hold seedlings for 3+ months. I use a lonnnnnnnnng drill bit to put the holes in...saves a lot of time.

cole...I like the idea of dunking the flats in a container of water...I think this would be great especially when the plants are small and watering from a can tends to push them down to the soil. I was wondering about when/how to cut them apart. I was hoping they would tear apart easily especially after a month or so of being moved around and in the sun.

SIP...got your PM...I think the cost of shipping would make those too expensive. I sell plants individually, not in the 6 packs. The stuff I sell is the rare/specialty type of heirlooms and most of my customers want one or two plants of each variety.

[clkeiper]

I grow to sell at my house and take to markets so I use a lot of cell packs to grow in. When I sell individual pots I buy a case of 4" pots and the flats that fit the pots so they aren't tipping over. This would be a much better "type " of individual grow out than the 2401's or the 1801's. I grow geraniums and tomatoes in these pots, they do take up more room for your plant space, but are much easier to work with as individual containers. I find the cell packs start to tip over once the packs are split apart and they are getting a little taller and there isn't a whole sheet left in the tray, BUT this is much more economical than the pots/trays investment. The trays are fairly expensive, but you can get around that by going to the big box stores and asking for the empties from their plant shipments. The pots though, are cheap ( at least for me, I can buy locally from a greenhouse supplier that is Amish) The case of 825 pots is approx 40.00. This is the Landmark Plastic Corp. brand, Co Extruded Thremoform Pots. A thin "soft" mum pot. This would better for writing on than the inserts. Those are incredible thin and there is no support for your pen to mark the surface, whereas the mum pots are in a "sleeve" stack and you could write on them before you pull the bottom pot off.

@Cole Robbie, What type/brand of 1801"s do you buy that you have to cut them apart? I have never seen them in that style. They should be "pre-cut" so that the corners are still all attached together and you can tear them apart as you need. Some years I see the plastic is heavier than others, but never a solid uncut sheet of them.

[Cole_Robbie]

They are TO Plastics I believe. The pre-cuts don't go all the way to the corners, and they won't tear apart by hand. If you pull on them too much, the plastic rips downward at a 45 degree angle.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

They are TO Plastics I believe. The pre-cuts don't go all the way to the corners, and they won't tear apart by hand. If you pull on them too much, the plastic rips downward at a 45 degree angle.

What you are describing are 1801 Inserts.

Inserts are thin and flimsly, and shorter in height than pots, but do have knife perforations slits between them, and you need to be careful when you sperate them since the outside corners are very sharp.

What you might be looking for is the 1801 pots, they are deeper than Inserts, and when you seperate them the outside corners are rounded, they are a better quality of plastic, and the rim of the pot is semi-rolled over.

ITML and KORD are one of the best for buying them.

Terry

[clkeiper]

Huntoften,

The other issue with flats and inserts to be aware of it that there are two different sizes of flats to purchase. One is considered a TRUE 1020 which is the actual dimension of the flat and inserts the other is actually a 10 1/2"x 201/2" dimension. So wherever or whatever you choose to do make sure the flats and refill inserts are the same brand or dimension.

Cole Robbie, I am not sure what brand my inserts are (doesn't say in the catalog) but I have never heard of them not ripping apart as needed. Are you using a growers tray maybe for nursery growing? I know that there products are sturdier than greenhouse ones. Just a thought and trying to help, not make it difficult for you, I just think this should not be this much work for you to take them apart. Are they the standard depth for a flat, too? I don't grow my larger tomatoes in them because I don't like the depth of them and as my tomatoes get to the 1' stage later in the season (and it does happen)they tumble sideways and I get tired of watering them this way.

[Cole_Robbie]

Yeah, they must be inserts. They are flimsy.

[Poma_adoris]

I'm trying to grow things as "greenly" as possible, preferably organically, so I am trying to limit use of throw-away plastic. Last year I used 3" round Jiffy Pots, which grew OK plants, but tended to tip over, and were hard to keep watered when the plants grew larger. Plus they would tear easily when handled, and tended to get "slimy". I bought the pots retail for 12 cents each (this year I noticed they went up to 15 cents). I sold them for only $1.25 each.

This year I bought a box of Jiffy Poly-paks in the 3-1/2" x 4" deep square size. 18 of them fit in a standard 1020 tray. They were not cheap by some standards, but they enable growing a larger, higher-value plant in the same 6-8 weeks period. I sell mine for $2-2.50 each, while other vendors at my farm market are selling single plants in plastic cups and whatnot for $1 each, and little 4 packs for $1-1.25. Several of those growers were watching a bit jealously as my much-larger plants were carried out by the dozen Saturday.

The larger size Poly-pak pots came 648 in a box (36 sheets) for about $100 plus shipping, another $10. So almost 20 cents each, more than offset by additional profit (takes a few cents more worth of potting mix too). I sure hope none of my direct competitors is reading this, lol. AM Leonard had them at the best price. They have a website. Lots of professional-quality supplies there. Sometimes their descriptions are not very clear, call and ask.

These Poly-pak pots have a flimsy plastic "sleeve" over the bottom part. The sleeves are in one solid tray, so I have to cut them apart to sell them individually. This is easy to do by sliding a serrated knife blade from underneath. Sometimes it rips the sleeve irregularly, but it doesn't matter since the pot is still intact. Sometimes I do use a scissors.

The sleeve helps support the pot when it is picked up, keeping it from tearing, and feeling better in the hand than a "slimy" bare pot. Plus the sleeves help hold water so the pots don't dry out so fast. As the plants are getting taller (up to 18"!), the pots will fall over once they are cut apart if not packed in a supportive tray. These plants are generally larger than the ones from Bonnie in larger peat pots at the box stores for $3.50 each, with no promise from them of organic, pesticide-free, and no direct personal advice from a knowledgeable grower.

6 of these fit well in a large paper grocery bag with the top folded down. Or, individual ones go singly in a paper lunch bag. I advise customers to tear off the bag, not try to lift them out. If they are like me, they are recycling any paper that comes into the house, so this is not so wasteful. If they want a plastic tray, I ask for a $1 refundable deposit. Few have taken one, and they took the plants to the car and brought the tray back right away. Otherwise the tray would go to the landfill, I'm sure.

For labels, 6" smooth natural birch made in USA, readily visible to me and the customers. I do use a paint pen since Sharpie fades. For back up, I make some kind of notation near the top of the dry Jiffy pots before putting the plants in them. Being square, the sides are flat and easy to write on. I use Sharpies for this. I try to glance at the note before a customer takes a plant but not an issue if I don't because it's usually easy at my market to avoid lost labels and mix-ups. Not always true, I know.

Like Carolyn K, I get as many trays as I can find loose at big box stores. I also ordered some web flats; they are not as sturdy as the solid-sided ones, but all that I could find. I put the Jiffy pots in their sleeves directly into the web flats for growing outside and taking to market. Indoors while under the lights, I kept them in solid trays with no holes. If the pots in the uncut sleeves are allowed to get a bit dry, they can be picked up and transferred as a unit from the solid tray to the web tray without damage. The solid trays are rather flimsy so I handle them carefully and keep them out of the sun hoping to get several years' use.

The pots are filled with an organic mix lightened with some additional perlite and sphagnum peat. They're watered from the top, my back wouldn't take dipping them! They're pretty heavy when wet. The only non-organic inputs are small amounts of soluble fertilizers, because I am also trying to raise them "vegan" and haven't found a good way to supply all the nutrients without manures, blood meal, etc.

For over 700 tomato plants in these and other pots I have used less than 8 ounces of dry soluble fertilizer so far. That seems fairly low-impact environmentally considering that I would otherwise have to buy heavy bagged animal products trucked from who-knows- where, using however much fuel to process and transport. I doubt any more oil is used to make & transport the "synthetic" fertilizers, but don't have any data for that.

Also even the "organic" products are basically products of industrial agriculture. You could scarcely gather enough manure fast enough from well-pastured stock to bag it economically. Of course, the "organic" potting mix I buy is bagged in heavy plastic. Duh. I get the largest bags I can, which helps hold down the plastic:mix ratio.

I hope I am not getting too political here. It just seems to me that "green" or sustainable is not always as clear as I would like. Probably the closest I could get to ideal would be to raise a nitrogen-fixing crop and a hay crop to compost together for a potting mix. That is not likely to happen in the near future. I would have to hire someone to process it, my back wouldn't do it anymore.

Peat is not environmentally sustainable, I know. But coir has to be fumigated for import. Maybe another option will be available in the near future. I suppose perlite is not the best product environmentally either, since they have to mine the rock and then heat it to explode it. I handle it carefully, being sure it is moistened because the dust is dangerous to the lungs.

The main problem I have right now is limited space for carrying plants to market, I have to pick and choose. We tried Craigslist with very limited response - no one who inquired actually came. Probably good because it could take a lot of time to have people make appointments and come individually for a few plants. I suppose they need to see the plants to know they are worth the asking price. A new market is starting this weekend, I plan to try that in addition to my usual one.

LOL, I won't always ramble so much in posts, I don't usually have the time!

- Poma adoris !!

[huntoften]

ok..some good food for thought. I may end up trying some of the inserts for my cool season crop sales, but stick to the cups for the tomato plants. Thanks!

[Cole_Robbie]

I have had good luck with craigslist, but I make pretty persuasive ads. I try not to undercut other vendors during our farmer's market, but pricing is anything goes when someone makes the effort to drive out to my greenhouse. I usually get into price negotiations where the customer argues that they need to pay a higher price, not a lower one.

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by huntoften

I've been using 8-10 oz opaque plastic cups for several years now to pot up my seedlings for sale. I drill a 1/2 inch hole in them and have had very good luck with them. The only complaint I have is that they tend to tip over fairly easily. I can put 24 of them in a 1020 tray and wedge a few more in if I need to. I write the variety name in the sides of each cup with a sharpie. I pot up around 5,000 plants each spring (tomatoes, peppers, herbs, lettuces, and many others) using Craig's dense planting method.

I'm not one to leave well enough alone and I' thinking about "upgrading" to more professional looking containers. I think these "2401" versions would fit my needs:

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/p...-trays-inserts

I'm thinking I would label the varieties on the rim of the container with a paint type marker as I really don't like using plant tags because they can fall out and then you have no clue what the variety is.

I'm open to any opinions on whether this 24 cell tray is what I need or if there are better options out there. Any advice would be appreciated as I continue to try and improve the quality of the plants I sell.

A friend of mine gave me a couple tomato plants in pots. She labeled the varieties using a ball point pen with a color sticky dot stuck to the side of the pot. Its cheaper than a plastic stake and you can color code your plants if you like plus they won't fall off. With 5,000 plants like you have, I would use a printer as opposed to hand writing them. I kind of like the idea and I'm thinking about using this approach for next season and I have just a few plants.

You are right about the plastic stake falling out. It happens even with the long ones sometimes.

My master gardener group uses a printed paper label attached to a wide plastic stake to give more information about the plant. We usually have about 15,000+ plants at our plant sale.