Seedling struggles this year. Please help

NewCreature · February 17, 2015

This is my third year of growing tomatoes from seed and it is by far the most frustrating. Last year, it all seemed so easy. Mindlessly sow the seeds and in about 10 days, all kinds of beautiful seedlings. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but I bet someone here does. Here are some of the details

I have 16 varieties of seeds from J&L, Park, and Baker Creek which I am trying to start in regular size Jiffy pellets. To plant the seeds, I use a slightly moistened eraser side of a pencil to pick up the seed and push it into the pellet. I typically put three seeds in each pellet. I have them on a heat mat in a 70 degree room. This all seems very much in line with what I have read everywhere about starting tomatoes in Jiffy pellets.

On my first effort this year, I only got one seedling to come out of the soil out of 32, and it was pitiful...long puny stem and barely any leaf. I think I had the pellets a bit too wet and I planted the seeds too deep. I am also suspicious of my tap water.

For my second batch, I used bottled water and was very careful not to make the pellets too wet. I also was very careful to plant the seeds no more than 1/4" deep. I am starting to get some plants sprout, but they look pretty pitiful too. One thing I noticed is that I get really heavy condensation on the greenhouse cover. When I check on them daily, I pour the condensation back into the tray. On this latest batch, the pellets seem to be a bit dry, so I have been giving them a little squirt of water to keep them slightly moist.

Any ideas on why I am having so many issues with germination?

As soon as they come out of the soil, I pull them from the tray and put them in another tray that is under an LED grow light 16 hours per day and I am keeping them moist. They are still very skinny and not sprouting leaves very well. I don't believe I have a light or water issue, so I can only assume I need to be fertilizing as I water. Last year I used a fish-based fertilizer and it seemed to work ok. Can someone tell me their tried and true seedling fertilizer recipe?

Mike

heirloomtomaguy · February 17, 2015

Hey Mike you said that you use a heat pad in a 70 degree room. Does your heating pad have a thermostat? If it is a typical seedling mat without a thermostat hooked up to it the mat will run 10 to 20 degrees hotter than your ambient room temperature. If that is the case the seeds are being cooked before they sprout. Also how far away is your led grow light from the seedlings? I like to keep the light about an inch or 2 max from the seedlings at all time otherwise they start to look spindly.

JJJessee · February 17, 2015

Have you probed the peat for a temperature at various times of the day?
Is the heat mat on a thermostat?

<echo post above>

NewCreature · February 17, 2015

My light is about 2" above the seedlings. As for the heat mat thing, maybe my setup is just too hot. As I am running out of time here, I think I will start another batch tonight off a heat pad to see if that makes a difference.

Worth1 · February 17, 2015

I'll give you some advice, you can use it or toss it, your choice.

Toss the heat mat your temps are high enough for sprouting without it.
Mine sprout at much cooler temps all of the time.
I have no idea what your LED grow light is or how high it is from the seeds.
You dont need fertilized water to sprout seeds.
The light and more than likely the heat is ruining the seedlings and seeds.
Something you are doing or something else is different than last year what is it?
If your water is chlorinated let some sit out each night to gas off.
Here is what I use for seedlings, 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon miracle grow to one gallon of water.

Worth

clkeiper · February 17, 2015

I agree... take them off the heat mat. It may not be regulated enough for tomatoes. They will sprout, it may take longer, but the seedlings will be sturdier than from on a heat mat. They don't need light until they germinate, either. Once you see them starting to pop up then keep a light on them. Even a window works, just turn them daily as they will stretch toward the light. I had thee different germinations already this year (since I grow for selling and need to have tomatoes on the plants in large pots for May) and every germination for every variety was different. Some germinated late and without heat just sitting in the tray on the bench. Those are the sturdiest in that tray. I started some in peat pellets... some popped quickly others in the same tray of the same variety are still sitting on the heat mat and are just now germinating. BUT I do use heat mats specifically for germinating. Are you using plant heat mats or a people heating pad? that may make a huge difference. I also keep a thermometer on my pad. My dwarfs are just now popping and they have been on the heat mat for over a week now. I don't fertilize until there is a true leaf, either. I have added a drop, just a drop, of dishsoap to the water for pepper seeds to soften the seed up some to help germination.

RayR · February 17, 2015

I agree with the others that is very likely that you're cooking those seeds in a 70°F room on a heat mat without a thermostat. Very heavy condensation on the dome would indicate the temperature is too high inside.
Starting a batch at room temperature without the heat mat would be a good move.

Rfdillon · February 17, 2015

You may also try a new batch and leave the transparent dome off of this one.

NewCreature · February 17, 2015

Well, it sounds like a perfect time to do a test. Seeds are cheap, as are the Jiffy rigs, so I will setup two sets of 32 tonight. I will keep the dome on one and off the other. We will see how things turn out in a few weeks. Unfortunately, with two false starts, it looks like I am going to be putting them out late this year. :-(

Cole_Robbie · February 17, 2015

I've never used Jiffy pellets.

The best seed germination I have had has been with Fox Farm's Light Warrior seed-starting mix. It's $20 a bag, so I only use it for expensive hybrid pepper seeds. The mix I bought this year for seed-starting is Jobe's organic mix, which is mostly coco-peat. It was on sale for $3 a bag. I have also used vermiculite watered with fish tank water. I keep my trays in a box or closet with a space heater and heat the air temp into the 80s.

I tested an aerated compost tea last time I sprouted seeds, using it as a soil drench, and it cut germination time in half. The flat that got the tea grew twice as fast. I'm going to try to work compost tea into a lot of my waterings next year.

RJGlew · February 17, 2015

If these are older seeds have they been stored properly? Cool, dry, dark?

dustee1 · February 18, 2015

Mike, I'd try a germination test. Take a few seeds from each variety & place them in a shallow container on top of a moistened paper towel & cover with plastic wrap. Placing them under the lights will help keep the humidity up but don't get the lights too close maybe a foot or so above. Look for the seeds to put out a small root. Once they do they can be planted into a larger container, maybe 3" or so with a quality seed starting mix.

Hope this helps,

Ted

Also a thermostat for your heat mat might be a good investment.

marthahill · February 18, 2015

I agree with Worth1 and Clkeiper. I rarely start seeds but when I do I start them in dry horse manure mixed with a little garden soil !! I have not had luck with any of the peat pellets or other mediums. The horse manure will not burn as long as its dry and my seeds germinate well at room temp (75 degrees) Even though the plants don`t need fertilizer at germination, they have it ready when they do. Just plant them.

clkeiper · February 23, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by clkeiper

I have added a drop, just a drop, of dishsoap to the water for pepper seeds to soften the seed up some to help germination.

I just wanted to edit this information to a DO NOT DO IT! trial. I stated that i added just a tiny drop of dish soap to my water... I am wondering if that is a BAD idea. I had that batch of seeds rot once the roots started to emerge. I am wondering if there was a chemical reaction to deteriorate the the root. I don't think the seeds over heated as they sat on the heat mat, either, because some of the ungerminated seeds are just now starting to show some germination so I pulled them out of there immediately and planted them up.

Worth1 · February 23, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by clkeiper

I just wanted to edit this information to a DO NOT DO IT! trial. I stated that i added just a tiny drop of dish soap to my water... I am wondering if that is a BAD idea. I had that batch of seeds rot once the roots started to emerge. I am wondering if there was a chemical reaction to deteriorate the the root. I don't think the seeds over heated as they sat on the heat mat, either, because some of the ungerminated seeds are just now starting to show some germination so I pulled them out of there immediately and planted them up.

Not all dish soap is the same and the so called concentrated stuff may be even worse.
Who knows.

Worth

February 17, 2015	#1
NewCreature Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Flint, TX Posts: 19	Seedling struggles this year. Please help This is my third year of growing tomatoes from seed and it is by far the most frustrating. Last year, it all seemed so easy. Mindlessly sow the seeds and in about 10 days, all kinds of beautiful seedlings. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but I bet someone here does. Here are some of the details I have 16 varieties of seeds from J&L, Park, and Baker Creek which I am trying to start in regular size Jiffy pellets. To plant the seeds, I use a slightly moistened eraser side of a pencil to pick up the seed and push it into the pellet. I typically put three seeds in each pellet. I have them on a heat mat in a 70 degree room. This all seems very much in line with what I have read everywhere about starting tomatoes in Jiffy pellets. On my first effort this year, I only got one seedling to come out of the soil out of 32, and it was pitiful...long puny stem and barely any leaf. I think I had the pellets a bit too wet and I planted the seeds too deep. I am also suspicious of my tap water. For my second batch, I used bottled water and was very careful not to make the pellets too wet. I also was very careful to plant the seeds no more than 1/4" deep. I am starting to get some plants sprout, but they look pretty pitiful too. One thing I noticed is that I get really heavy condensation on the greenhouse cover. When I check on them daily, I pour the condensation back into the tray. On this latest batch, the pellets seem to be a bit dry, so I have been giving them a little squirt of water to keep them slightly moist. Any ideas on why I am having so many issues with germination? As soon as they come out of the soil, I pull them from the tray and put them in another tray that is under an LED grow light 16 hours per day and I am keeping them moist. They are still very skinny and not sprouting leaves very well. I don't believe I have a light or water issue, so I can only assume I need to be fertilizing as I water. Last year I used a fish-based fertilizer and it seemed to work ok. Can someone tell me their tried and true seedling fertilizer recipe? Mike __________________ Mike (aka NewCreature) Flint, TX <><

February 17, 2015	#2
heirloomtomaguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: glendora ca Posts: 2,560	Hey Mike you said that you use a heat pad in a 70 degree room. Does your heating pad have a thermostat? If it is a typical seedling mat without a thermostat hooked up to it the mat will run 10 to 20 degrees hotter than your ambient room temperature. If that is the case the seeds are being cooked before they sprout. Also how far away is your led grow light from the seedlings? I like to keep the light about an inch or 2 max from the seedlings at all time otherwise they start to look spindly. __________________ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

February 17, 2015	#3
JJJessee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Abingdon, Va Posts: 184	Have you probed the peat for a temperature at various times of the day? Is the heat mat on a thermostat? <echo post above> Last edited by JJJessee; February 17, 2015 at 10:27 AM. Reason: <echo post above>

February 17, 2015	#4
NewCreature Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Flint, TX Posts: 19	My light is about 2" above the seedlings. As for the heat mat thing, maybe my setup is just too hot. As I am running out of time here, I think I will start another batch tonight off a heat pad to see if that makes a difference. __________________ Mike (aka NewCreature) Flint, TX <><

February 17, 2015	#6
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	I agree... take them off the heat mat. It may not be regulated enough for tomatoes. They will sprout, it may take longer, but the seedlings will be sturdier than from on a heat mat. They don't need light until they germinate, either. Once you see them starting to pop up then keep a light on them. Even a window works, just turn them daily as they will stretch toward the light. I had thee different germinations already this year (since I grow for selling and need to have tomatoes on the plants in large pots for May) and every germination for every variety was different. Some germinated late and without heat just sitting in the tray on the bench. Those are the sturdiest in that tray. I started some in peat pellets... some popped quickly others in the same tray of the same variety are still sitting on the heat mat and are just now germinating. BUT I do use heat mats specifically for germinating. Are you using plant heat mats or a people heating pad? that may make a huge difference. I also keep a thermometer on my pad. My dwarfs are just now popping and they have been on the heat mat for over a week now. I don't fertilize until there is a true leaf, either. I have added a drop, just a drop, of dishsoap to the water for pepper seeds to soften the seed up some to help germination. __________________ carolyn k

February 17, 2015	#5
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I'll give you some advice, you can use it or toss it, your choice. Toss the heat mat your temps are high enough for sprouting without it. Mine sprout at much cooler temps all of the time. I have no idea what your LED grow light is or how high it is from the seeds. You dont need fertilized water to sprout seeds. The light and more than likely the heat is ruining the seedlings and seeds. Something you are doing or something else is different than last year what is it? If your water is chlorinated let some sit out each night to gas off. Here is what I use for seedlings, 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon miracle grow to one gallon of water. Worth

February 17, 2015	#7
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	I agree with the others that is very likely that you're cooking those seeds in a 70°F room on a heat mat without a thermostat. Very heavy condensation on the dome would indicate the temperature is too high inside. Starting a batch at room temperature without the heat mat would be a good move.

February 17, 2015	#8
Rfdillon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 121	You may also try a new batch and leave the transparent dome off of this one.

February 17, 2015	#10
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I've never used Jiffy pellets. The best seed germination I have had has been with Fox Farm's Light Warrior seed-starting mix. It's $20 a bag, so I only use it for expensive hybrid pepper seeds. The mix I bought this year for seed-starting is Jobe's organic mix, which is mostly coco-peat. It was on sale for $3 a bag. I have also used vermiculite watered with fish tank water. I keep my trays in a box or closet with a space heater and heat the air temp into the 80s. I tested an aerated compost tea last time I sprouted seeds, using it as a soil drench, and it cut germination time in half. The flat that got the tea grew twice as fast. I'm going to try to work compost tea into a lot of my waterings next year.

February 17, 2015	#11
RJGlew Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 645	If these are older seeds have they been stored properly? Cool, dry, dark?

February 18, 2015	#12
dustee1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: North Las Vegas Posts: 38	Mike, I'd try a germination test. Take a few seeds from each variety & place them in a shallow container on top of a moistened paper towel & cover with plastic wrap. Placing them under the lights will help keep the humidity up but don't get the lights too close maybe a foot or so above. Look for the seeds to put out a small root. Once they do they can be planted into a larger container, maybe 3" or so with a quality seed starting mix. Hope this helps, Ted Also a thermostat for your heat mat might be a good investment.

February 18, 2015	#13
marthahill Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NE Texas Posts: 13	I agree with Worth1 and Clkeiper. I rarely start seeds but when I do I start them in dry horse manure mixed with a little garden soil !! I have not had luck with any of the peat pellets or other mediums. The horse manure will not burn as long as its dry and my seeds germinate well at room temp (75 degrees) Even though the plants don`t need fertilizer at germination, they have it ready when they do. Just plant them.