Dehybridized Brandy Boy

[FruitGuyMiller]

I know some of you have been growing out Brandy Boy to F5 and beyond in the past. I'm wondering if anyone could update us on this. Has anyone successfully dehybridized Brandy Boy? If so, would you be willing to share seeds?

[brownrexx]

I have seen these type of comments before and I am wondering why people would want to dehybridize a hybrid?

Aren't the characteristics of the hybrid what is desirable in the first place? Why would you want to mess with that and lose some of those characteristics that made is a good hybrid to start with.

[FruitGuyMiller]

brownrexx,

The issue is getting a stable plant that you can harvest seeds from so you don't have to buy the seeds from Burpee forever.

There is nothing special about a hybrid necessarily. The issue is that hybrids aren't stable varieties. It takes a few generations of selecting for seeds that are true to the parent before you get a stable variety.

[carolyn137]

Mischka has tried and got really weird results.

Looking at the name, Brandywine is pink and PL,and most assumed the other parent was Better Boy F1 or Big Boy F1,both red and RL,red color is dominant to pink and yet Brandy Boy F1 is pink and PL, and for it to be stable one needs PL to be homozygous recessive, so one would assume that both parent were PL,which they are not, apparently.

And therein is the mystery and challenge.

Carolyn

[FruitGuyMiller]

Carolyn,

I imagine the "Boy" in the name is just a marketing thing. Burpee seems fond of naming plants "Boy." Take Jersey Boy, for example; it is a supposedly a cross between Brandywine and Rutgers. There is no "Boy" in its parentage.

So, Mischka was unsuccessful in getting a stable version of Brandy Boy that was (nearly) true to the original?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by FruitGuyMiller

Carolyn,

I imagine the "Boy" in the name is just a marketing thing. Burpee seems fond of naming plants "Boy." Take Jersey Boy, for example; it is a supposedly a cross between Brandywine and Rutgers. There is no "Boy" in its parentage.

So, Mischka was unsuccessful in getting a stable version of Brandy Boy that was (nearly) true to the original?

Please read this thread and almost everyone by now should know enough NOT to believe all that Burpee says

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=34258

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Mischka has tried and got really weird results.

Looking at the name, Brandywine is pink and PL,and most assumed the other parent was Better Boy F1 or Big Boy F1,both red and RL,red color is dominant to pink and yet Brandy Boy F1 is pink and PL, and for it to be stable one needs PL to be homozygous recessive, so one would assume that both parent were PL,which they are not, apparently.

And therein is the mystery and challenge.

Carolyn

I left some very important genetics out of this post and just remembererd to post that I'll be back when I can to remedy that.With almost 8 hours at Tville today,I've really had it,if you know what I mean.

Carolyn

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by brownrexx

I have seen these type of comments before and I am wondering why people would want to dehybridize a hybrid?

Aren't the characteristics of the hybrid what is desirable in the first place? Why would you want to mess with that and lose some of those characteristics that made is a good hybrid to start with.

Hybrids are valuable for two main reasons. Hybrids often are more vigorous/productive than their parents, which is valuable to the grower. Hybrids are also highly restricted (because only the producer knows which parents went into the hybrid), which is valuable to the producer alone. A dehybridized strain can be an equal or better than the hybrid that was sold in terms of production/taste/etc., but it takes a lot of work to get there. The effort that goes into the process essentially takes control of the crop from the seed producer and gives it back to the farmer.

[amideutch]

Here is a link on the subject.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ght=Brandy+Boy

Ami

[travis]

I gave it up at F4 when the majority of my plants showed no resistance to such common tomato disorders as fusarium and verticillium wilts. No reason to grow tomatoes that can't meet certain minimum standards.

[brownrexx]

I e-mailed Burpee and asked what was crossed with Brandywine to make their Brandy Boy and this is the answer I got from one of their horticulturists:


The other parent of Brandy Boy are not a named variety just a number. It is only used for breeding.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by brownrexx

I e-mailed Burpee and asked what was crossed with Brandywine to make their Brandy Boy and this is the answer I got from one of their horticulturists:


The other parent of Brandy Boy are not a named variety just a number. It is only used for breeding.

A typical non answer as they usually give,and if you read the link I gave above you'll see other prime Burppe examples as well.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

About Brandy Boy and claims made;

If you didn't read all the links I gave especially the one about the genetics of Brandy Boy,here it is again. And note what year the following link was from.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39977

Carolyn

[Fred Hempel]

The parents of hybrids are trade secrets, and represent significant developmental costs. One should not expect a seed company to divulge parental lines and basically give away hard earned secrets. In no other business, are people almost expected to give the public this type of information.

I am currently working on a Red Bumblebee F1, and last year I tested 54 different hybrids I made, in hopes that one of them would represent the combining of two parents in a highly synergistic way. In other words, I made 54 crosses looking for one particularly excellent combination of parents.

3 of those crosses performed very well with regard to both fruit and plant traits, without any evident shortcomings. Those 3 hybrids are being tested more extensively this year. One of the crosses might perform at a level high enough for general release, but we continue to make additional crosses to add to our Red Bumblebee list (and we also continue to develop new "red bumblebee" parental lines).

Once I release a Red Bumblebee F1, I am assuming that it will be dehybridized by people who don't want to pay for hybrid seed. If the dehybridized lines are equivalent to the hybrid, then I have not done my job (which is to find unique F1 synergy that clearly eclipses any of my Red Bumblebee breeding lines or any dehybridized lines).

The value of my work will be judged based on whether or not people continue to buy hybrid seed. If they do, it will indicate that my Red Bumblebee hybrid is indeed special.

People continue to by hybrids like Sungold for exactly this reason (dehybridized lines are NOT equal to Sungold).

Originally Posted by brownrexx

I e-mailed Burpee and asked what was crossed with Brandywine to make their Brandy Boy and this is the answer I got from one of their horticulturists:


The other parent of Brandy Boy are not a named variety just a number. It is only used for breeding.

[carolyn137]

Fred wrote

(The parents of hybrids are trade secrets,)

Not always Fred,and you and I posted at the same time and if you look at my post above yours and a few above mine, I think You'll see what I mean.

Burpee used to subcontract out to Petoseed and tell them what they wanted and unfortunately sometimes they wanted one that was well known variety,such as Tye Dye. Or one like Fourth of July,etc.

It's been just a few years that Burpee regrouped and got out from where George Ball had put them and now have a couple of new breeders at their place in PA,so we shall see what comes next.

Carolyn