Seed Saving isolation distance?

[DeanRIowa]

I am thinking of growing three kinds of tomatillos next year, any ideas on isolation distance so I could save pure seed?

thanks,
Dean

[Medbury Gardens]

Dean
Your question has the answer in the Basic growing,top thread

[Worth1]

I have looked all over this section and all over the WEB and have found that I am more confused than ever.

One place said about 50 meters.
It also said they are not self pollinating and someone said all Tomatillos are hybrids.
I just simply cannot believe the last statement.

Over at SSE they said this.
“Tomatillo - Planting: Sow indoors ¼" deep in pots or flats 6 weeks before the last frost. Thin seedlings when 2" tall and transplant into individual pots. Plant outdoors 24" apart in rows 36" apart. Culture is very similar to tomatoes. Plants can be trellised to keep well contained and the fruits off of the dirt, or the plants can be allowed to sprawl on the ground.”
And this,
“Seed Saving: Tomatillos will not cross-pollinate. Select fully ripe fruits to save for seed. Pick at least one ripe fruit from each of several plants. Squeeze seeds and juice into a strainer and wash, spread on a paper plate and dry.”
Now I’m stumped.
My wildest guess would say that if you gave the critters a good distance apart and they had purple polka dots on them you would get seeds that produced the same.
I have never grown the things before and would like to know the truth.
Worth

[DeanRIowa]

Worth,

I was just going to post the samething. Everywhere I read seems to be saying something different. On this forum it says, 500 m, everywhere else says something different.

My best guess and what I am going to try is to 100 feet with barriers in between. I have 2 varieities I want to trail next year, they are available via SSE, but I wanted to be sure before I offered them to anyone else in a future trade.

oh, and I almost forgot I wanted to grow a ground cherry next year and some places say they are the same as a tomatillo and others says they are different.

thanks,
Dean

[newatthiskat]

All I know is you need more than one. I grew only 1 this past season and the only tomitillo I got was pollinated at the nursery. I went back to let the staff know to not sell only one. I don't think most nurserys would even know the answer to your question .I am wanting to try a few different kinds next year as well. But the plant I grew was not very much like a tomato plant. It was more woody. I would think that if there has to be two to pollinate, then there would be a good chance for cross pollination? Anyway good luck next season!

[orflo]

I can only tell you a bit about my experiences with tomatillos (other climate, circumstances,....). First of all, a ground cherry (physalis pruinosa) is not the same as tomatillo (physalis ixocarpa). Ground cherries are sweet tasting small berries, un to max 2 cms big (that's already big!), they are in fact a smaller version of physalis peruviana. Ground cherries are generally speaking self-pollinating, and will certainly never cross with tomatillos. Tomatillos however aren't self-pollinating, meaning you need to have at least two plants of one variety. Strictly speaking, because they need this other pollinating plant, they are indeed hybrids, but so are lots of cabbages or allium. If tomatoes get pollinated from insects, even within the same variety, they are hybrids, but if this pollination happens within the same variety, you won't notice a thing when you grow out the seeds.
Now , for isolation distances. I have about the same isolation distance you have (100 ft), I've been testing for a few years, and they do not cross over here. But I have lots of other flowering plants in between the tomatillos. Especially bigger plants wearing lots of attractive flowers can play a major role. And , of course, the activity of insects, the insect types,....
Try it out, re-sow the seeds the next year and see what has happened

[Worth1]

Hybrid
1 Botany a plant produced from a cross between two plants with different genetic constituents. Hybrids from crosses between crop varieties are often stronger and produce better yields than the original stock.

A Kellogg’s Breakfast crossed with a Black Cheery is a hybrid.
A black Cherry pollinated with an other Black Cheery is not.


2 Zoology an animal that results from the mating of parents from two distinct species or subspecies.

A Mule is a Hybrid.

A Black Angus crossed with a long horn is a hybrid.
Two Long horns that get together and decide to have a calf have baby Long horns, not hybrids.

The loose use of the term hybrid is what through me off to began with.
In that same link that I read it said that Mole sauce (Verde) pretty much has to have Tomatillos in it.
This would leave you to believe that verde and mole is the same thing.

For one thing mole is not verde, verde means green and most mole sauces are not green.
This came from a university link and it goes to prove that even academia can be wrong with its wording.

I’m sorry and I don’t mean to be argumentative but if we go this direction with the term Hybrid then a lot of people are going to get confused.

What should have been said is that the Tomatillo needs a companion plant of the same variety to pollinate.

Worth

[orflo]

Strictly: any cross between two plants, even the same variety is a hybrid!!
But I do understand you don't want the confusion

[Worth1]

Now you are making me look like an idiot or at least I feel that way and I know you don’t mean to.
It is just a difference of opinion.

For one thing two plants of the same variety bred together is not a cross and therefore is not a hybrid.
Sure they may have some genetic differences but they are still of the same variety.
This small amount of genetic difference is what leads to evolution.
I won’t even get into the grafting of apples which is a whole different thing.

This whole hybrid thing has gone too far.
Hybrid economics.
Hybrid cars,
Hybrid metals that were once called alloys.
Did you know they now have what they call a hybrid table saw?
That one had me wooly buggered for a while and after some research I found it was basically a cabinet saw with a smaller motor.
The list goes on.

The point I am trying to make is that when I read that all tomatillos were hybrids it led me to think that you had to have more than one variety to get seeds.
I couldn’t buy this and looked farther for the truth.

I really don’t care for such debate or study of plants as when folks get to talking about certain aspects of it a headache starts to happen and the old vision starts to blur.

That’s why I never get involved with the tomato crossing thread.
I just have a basic working knowledge of plants and animals and it is enough for me to get by in my own humble way.

Many other people on this forum feel the same way as I do and in no way do I or them profess to be experts or want to show folks how smart we are.

We just want to grow and save a tomatillo seed.

Worth

[orflo]

NO no, I didn't want to make you look like a fool, you have your point of view, I have mine.
So, Dean, grow out the tomatillos, observe, try, also observe other plants (if, for example, you already have experiences with pepper crosses while they're at a distance of 20 ft, you could be fearing tomatillos will certainly cross). Or.. if you really want to make sure (and have the time to do it), put an some isolation covers over each of the varieties (one variety = one net), open up the net of the first variety the first day,close it again in the evening, open the net of the second variety the second day , close it again,...

[Worth1]

No worries Orflo.

By the way speaking of crosses I have three plants that I have no idea what the are, they look like small pablano peppers and are hot.

No clue as to where they came from.
They don't show up on my list of plants

I'm saving seeds from these as they are so prolific.
Who knows.
Worth