mulching with hay and straw?

tarheelchick · May 12, 2016

I've been reading online and I have just about gotten myself so confused that I don't know if I'm coming or going

.

I have several (about 10 months old), bales of something that someone gave me. I'm guessing it is straw and that it came from Home Depot, but I'm not sure. It has been sitting in the back of my lot all this time, and it has been rained on etc for all this time. It has some long grass growing out of the top of it, and it has some mushrooms trying to grow on the inside of it. It's wet and smooshie.

I also have some dry, straw bales (I am sure this is straw) that is dry and newly purchased from a local nursery.

I need to cover some areas of my garden (primarily the paths) with something as I ran out of my leaf mulch/compost which I placed directly around my plants. I was thinking about laying down some old yard waste bags that I have (brown paper bags), then layering on the old wet bales, then putting the dry straw on top of that.

I keep reading about how straw can drain the nitrogen from my soil as it decomposes and how weed seeds can be present in the bales. So confusing!

Am I overthinking? Good idea? Bad idea?

Thoughts anyone?

BigVanVader · May 12, 2016

Never ever ever never use hay for mulch, unless you enjoy weeds covering your garden. Straw is the bees knees though.

Father'sDaughter · May 13, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

Never ever ever never use hay for mulch, unless you enjoy weeds covering your garden. Straw is the bees knees though.

Unless you buy something labeled "straw" that really turns out to be "hay." Happened to me two years in a row, so now I stick with mulched leaves.

pmcgrady · May 13, 2016

A bale of straw and a bale of hay, if they are small square bales are easy to tell apart...
It's those big round bales, wrapped in Kentucky Blue Grass on the outside, with corn husks on the inside, that you need to worry about...

Mike723 · May 13, 2016

I use straw for my paths, but I don't use it on my beds as I haven't found an organic source just yet. I use a 50/50 blend of my own grass clippings and ground leaves, as I know where they've "been" lol..

mecktom · May 13, 2016

I always use hay and it works fine. Straw has weed seeds unless it is certified and then you still don't know for sure.

Mike723 · May 13, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by mecktom

I always use hay and it works fine. Straw has weed seeds unless it is certified and then you still don't know for sure.

I think that you may be confused. Hay is the entire harvested grass, including the seed heads. Hay is more commonly used as an animal feed, but is also good for compost (more nutrients than straw) so long as your pile gets hot enough to kill the seeds. Straw is simply the plant stalk that is left behind when the seed heads are removed.
To sum it up: Hay= Seeds, Straw= NO seeds

ChiliPeppa · May 13, 2016

Alfalfa hay rarely has seed in it, tho you may occasionally find a weed or two. And if you are laying hay or straw on the top of the soil you don't need to worry about nitrogen getting robbed from the soil as you would if you were digging it in.

**Lee** · May 15, 2016

Another point to note is the possibility of broad leaf herbicide residue on the hay/straw. Take a seedling or two that you have extra and mulch it (in ground or in pot) with some of your straw/hay material. Water it well and wait a week to ten days. (You may need longer to be really certain.) Examine the growth habit of the foliage on the tomato plant. If it is deformed,twisted, and or distorted, do not put the straw/hay around your plants. 2-4D is a common broadleaf weed herbicide used on grass that can seriously damage your tomato plants, no matter their size!

Lee

Susan66 · May 15, 2016

I had a friend in MO who used hay pretty much exclusively. He would treat it by watering it to get the seeds to sprout then put it sprouted grass side down in the garden. He had some of the most beautiful veggies I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure your partially rotted hay will work fine as mulch/next year's soil builder. I'd use it and be grateful. Just smother the new grass growing on it. The fungi won't do anything harmful, either, except help rot the hay faster.
Susan

PaulF · May 15, 2016

I first put down a couple layers of newspaper as a weed barrier then 6-8 inches of straw. Some straw will have seeds still in it but they are easy to get rid of since they do not grow into the soil because of the newspaper barrier. Works well in my garden. Then at the end of the season it all gets tilled into the soil to add organic material.

My entire space gets mulched, not just the pathways. Never have had an herbicide residue problem; until now never gave it a thought. As the straw and paper are decomposing they will draw some nitrogen but then release it all back later. Decomposition only takes place after it has all been tilled into the soil after the growing season. Additional N is added as needed before the next season begins.

imp · May 15, 2016

I've used hay before and would again if I can get it cheap enough, LOL! Put it thickly and keep the "flakes" tight together and it is great. Never had a lot of problems with weeds, a few now and then, easy to reach down and snatch out.

A;so keeps the plants nice and clean.

mecktom · May 15, 2016

Well aware of the difference in hay and straw. I have a herd of Angus cows and bale a large amount of hay for them and also sell quite a bit to neighbors. As another poster stated, put it down very thick....it will do fine. There is no way to eliminate or protect a garden from all of the seeds that are around.

tarheelchick · May 16, 2016

Thanks everyone. I did use the old hay. I put down the brown paper bags first, then the old wet hay, then layered the new straw on top. It will just be an experiment for me I guess. My garden isn't that big, so if I end up weeding, it won't be that bad. I don't plan to till or plow the garden, so I will have to see what things look like at the end of the season. If things don't look like they're decomposing, I may have to rake it up before planting my winter cover. Trial and error I suppose!

Thanks for all the responses!

May 12, 2016	#1
tarheelchick Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: NC Posts: 97	mulching with hay and straw? I've been reading online and I have just about gotten myself so confused that I don't know if I'm coming or going . I have several (about 10 months old), bales of something that someone gave me. I'm guessing it is straw and that it came from Home Depot, but I'm not sure. It has been sitting in the back of my lot all this time, and it has been rained on etc for all this time. It has some long grass growing out of the top of it, and it has some mushrooms trying to grow on the inside of it. It's wet and smooshie. I also have some dry, straw bales (I am sure this is straw) that is dry and newly purchased from a local nursery. I need to cover some areas of my garden (primarily the paths) with something as I ran out of my leaf mulch/compost which I placed directly around my plants. I was thinking about laying down some old yard waste bags that I have (brown paper bags), then layering on the old wet bales, then putting the dry straw on top of that. I keep reading about how straw can drain the nitrogen from my soil as it decomposes and how weed seeds can be present in the bales. So confusing! Am I overthinking? Good idea? Bad idea? Thoughts anyone?

May 15, 2016	#9
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	Another point to note is the possibility of broad leaf herbicide residue on the hay/straw. Take a seedling or two that you have extra and mulch it (in ground or in pot) with some of your straw/hay material. Water it well and wait a week to ten days. (You may need longer to be really certain.) Examine the growth habit of the foliage on the tomato plant. If it is deformed,twisted, and or distorted, do not put the straw/hay around your plants. 2-4D is a common broadleaf weed herbicide used on grass that can seriously damage your tomato plants, no matter their size! Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

May 15, 2016	#11
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,295	I first put down a couple layers of newspaper as a weed barrier then 6-8 inches of straw. Some straw will have seeds still in it but they are easy to get rid of since they do not grow into the soil because of the newspaper barrier. Works well in my garden. Then at the end of the season it all gets tilled into the soil to add organic material. My entire space gets mulched, not just the pathways. Never have had an herbicide residue problem; until now never gave it a thought. As the straw and paper are decomposing they will draw some nitrogen but then release it all back later. Decomposition only takes place after it has all been tilled into the soil after the growing season. Additional N is added as needed before the next season begins. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

May 12, 2016	#2
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	Never ever ever never use hay for mulch, unless you enjoy weeds covering your garden. Straw is the bees knees though.

May 13, 2016	#4
pmcgrady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 1,836	A bale of straw and a bale of hay, if they are small square bales are easy to tell apart... It's those big round bales, wrapped in Kentucky Blue Grass on the outside, with corn husks on the inside, that you need to worry about...

May 13, 2016	#5
Mike723 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: CT Posts: 290	I use straw for my paths, but I don't use it on my beds as I haven't found an organic source just yet. I use a 50/50 blend of my own grass clippings and ground leaves, as I know where they've "been" lol..

May 13, 2016	#6
mecktom Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southern Virginia Posts: 342	I always use hay and it works fine. Straw has weed seeds unless it is certified and then you still don't know for sure.

May 13, 2016	#8
ChiliPeppa Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Mojave Desert - California Posts: 368	Alfalfa hay rarely has seed in it, tho you may occasionally find a weed or two. And if you are laying hay or straw on the top of the soil you don't need to worry about nitrogen getting robbed from the soil as you would if you were digging it in.

May 15, 2016	#10
Susan66 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Western NY Posts: 133	I had a friend in MO who used hay pretty much exclusively. He would treat it by watering it to get the seeds to sprout then put it sprouted grass side down in the garden. He had some of the most beautiful veggies I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure your partially rotted hay will work fine as mulch/next year's soil builder. I'd use it and be grateful. Just smother the new grass growing on it. The fungi won't do anything harmful, either, except help rot the hay faster. Susan

May 15, 2016	#12
imp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 4,832	I've used hay before and would again if I can get it cheap enough, LOL! Put it thickly and keep the "flakes" tight together and it is great. Never had a lot of problems with weeds, a few now and then, easy to reach down and snatch out. A;so keeps the plants nice and clean.

May 16, 2016	#14
tarheelchick Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: NC Posts: 97	Thanks everyone. I did use the old hay. I put down the brown paper bags first, then the old wet hay, then layered the new straw on top. It will just be an experiment for me I guess. My garden isn't that big, so if I end up weeding, it won't be that bad. I don't plan to till or plow the garden, so I will have to see what things look like at the end of the season. If things don't look like they're decomposing, I may have to rake it up before planting my winter cover. Trial and error I suppose! Thanks for all the responses!