Raised Bed Soil Suggestions

NArnold · March 30, 2015

I am in the process of building some raised beds that I plan to grow vegetables in. What type of soil should I put in them? There will be 4 4'x4'x23" beds and 2 2'x12'x18" beds. My thought was to just get some good top soil and mix with cow manure compost. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Nick

Gardeneer · March 30, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by NArnold

I am in the process of building some raised beds that I plan to grow vegetables in. What type of soil should I put in them? There will be 4 4'x4'x23" beds and 2 2'x12'x18" beds. My thought was to just get some good top soil and mix with cow manure compost. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Nick

I have built raised beds , a total of 120 sqr-ft in las couple of year. Aplace neraby sells different mixed. But I like 50% top soil and 50% compost. Then I dump whole bunch of come manure and pine bark mulch ( to improve drainage and aeration.
I would fill the beds to the rim b/c it will settle down quite a bit.

For the given dimensions you will need about 2.5 cubic yards

Good luck !

Gardeneer

drew51 · March 31, 2015

I prefer garden soil to top soil, but it costs a lot more.

Father'sDaughter · March 31, 2015

Check with your local nurseries and garden centers. Around here several sell a garden mix or garden compost that they recommend for new gardens. When I expanded an existing bed and added a second one, I was lucky to find one that delivered for free if I bought 3 or more cubic yards, so I was able to really fill them to the top.

ScottinAtlanta · March 31, 2015

Avoid top soil if it has any clay in it. 100% manure is better - just get it 3 months before you plant out.

bughunter99 · March 31, 2015

To save on costs, fill the bottom 12 inches of them with yard waste, Small sticks, leaves, pine needles, shredded newspaper, shredded cardboard, grass clippings, old straw etc. Wet all of that down really well. Then add more yard waste to bring it up to 14" high. Throw some blood meal and bone meal on it and wet it down again. Fill the rest of it with a mix of compost and potting soil. Or if potting soil is too expensive make your own mix of soil, peat moss and vermiculite.

DO NOT add manure unless you are 1000% certain that it has come from animals that have not been fed herbicide treated hay. That stuff stays active through digestion and in its manure and will RUIN your soil.

If your manure is safe, do not add it unless it has been well composted.

Worth1 · March 31, 2015

I had a friend in Colorado just mix up a 3-3-3 mix of compost peat moss and vermiculite.
It was too late for me to tell him to put in some sharp sand also.
I like compost but if you dont know where it is coming from you can end up with herbicides in it that will kill your tomato plants.

Now here is my advice.

What ever you do dont expect to see the plants take off like rockets just becuase you mixed all of this stuff up.

I did this and it took a good while for me to pull my head out of it and see what the problem was.
You need to have what ever soil you add tested for PH.
Do it yourself or send it off.
Now the hard part for you to believe.
Sometimes when people get the test results back it will say PH 6 need to add lime or so forth to bring up PH.
This is total BS do not add that lime just to raise PH.

Here is the kicker.
Tomatoes and just about every other plant you will grow likes and acid soil.
(Not a neutral soil).
With tomatoes 7 which is neutral is the high limit of PH.
Peppers like an even more acid soil.
When you build an engine the clearances are lets say nominal 2.500 +or- 0.006.
This means you can go 6 thousands bigger or smaller.
But the design was for it to be 2.500.
The same goes for PH there are lower limits and higher limits.
The best performance is in the middle.
This area is were the plant can take up nutrients the best.

Here is your chance to get it right the first time regardless of what you decide to build it out of.
You want it lose even when dry you want it to be able to take up moisture when dry you want it to hold moisture and you want it well drained.
You want to be able to use your hand to scoop out soil to plant what ever it is you are planting.

Here is a list of things you can use. sharp sand. compost. cotton seed meal. manure. decomposed granite, good dark top soil not garbage and peat moss.
I would mix in 50% peat moss to what ever the other stuff was keeping an eye on the PH at all times.

Worth

Gardeneer · March 31, 2015

I differ with worth on few things:

--peat moss and vermiculite are both too costly to build a 2.5 Cu-yrd And They have no benefit. They both are highly moisture retentive.

--- sand is for amending clay soil. AND anything less than 35% has no benefit and it can have negative effects by compacting the soil and making it dense, depriving the roots from air.

Instead of above I would add pine/fir bark fine/mulch (natural, not colored), dust size to 1/2".
I do this myself. Keep adding pine bark mulch. I buy them $4/ 2 cu-ft . You can buy them cheaper in balk quantity. If you cannot do it for the whole bed, condition the planting holes with pine bark fine.
This system/amendment works perfect in our rainy cool PNW. No matter how much it rains, my raised bed would never be soggy
It might not be as good in your climate. Like they say: YMMV

drew51 · March 31, 2015

I myself would add peat as it keeps ph low, and the night crawlers just love the stuff.
In raised beds water retention is hardly ever a problem, it will dry a lot quicker than the ground.

TightenUp · March 31, 2015

I'm heading into year 4 of mels mix and I just keep getting better and better results each year. it's an even mixture of peat, vermiculite and compost(consisting of 5 sources). during the compost stage I bought 4 sources and added some homemade compost. if i remember correctly wiggleworm worm castings, cow manure(from box store), vermont compost company manure, chickity doo doo, homemade grass/leaf mold compost and mushroom compost

I don't actively compost much so instead of adding compost after each season i just add a layer of manure. twice it was horse manure and once it was rabbit manure. I also have mulched heavily with hay annd wood chips which get turned in after the planting season.

Mels mix has a initial cost and work load up front and minimal cost moving forward. I do supplement with a little organic fertilizer but not too much.

This 16x4 raised bed kicks a$$

OzoneNY · March 31, 2015

on the water retention point, would that landscaping fabric stuff help with moisture retention if covering the soil with holes in all the right places?

Gardeneer · April 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzoneNY

on the water retention point, would that landscaping fabric stuff help with moisture retention if covering the soil with holes in all the right places?

Generally, most problems are associated with too much water retention (soggy condition) than less of it. Unless you have extremely sandy soil (like Fl ?) . Now we are talking about things like tomatoes and peppers. There are plants/veggies that like wet feet. There are also plants that grow in water . But those are exceptions.

drew51 · April 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Generally, most problems are associated with too much water retention (soggy condition) than less of it. Unless you have extremely sandy soil (like Fl ?) . Now we are talking about things like tomatoes and peppers. There are plants/veggies that like wet feet. There are also plants that grow in water . But those are exceptions.

You live in a wet state, here I have never seen soggy raised beds. It just does not happen. Maybe early spring but all summer I fight the dryness. I need ways to keep moist, and my environment is far from extreme.
Don Shorr a nursery owner and plant expert in Davis CA says not to use peat in CA because it becomes dry too fast and is hard to re-wet. It's so dry there peat losses it's soggy nature and is more like a dry paste. Not good! The old saying "location, location, ,location".

Ozoneny is going to have dry soil in TX and yeah raised beds will make it 10 times drier. You don't want a fast draining soil there for sure.
In Nebraska unsure of conditions?

Gardeneer · April 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew51

You live in a wet state, here I have never seen soggy raised beds. It just does not happen. Maybe early spring but all summer I fight the dryness. I need ways to keep moist, and my environment is far from extreme.
Don Shorr a nursery owner and plant expert in Davis CA says not to use peat in CA because it becomes dry too fast and is hard to re-wet. It's so dry there peat losses it's soggy nature and is more like a dry paste. Not good! The old saying "location, location, ,location".

Ozoneny is going to have dry soil in TX and yeah raised beds will make it 10 times drier. You don't want a fast draining soil there for sure.
In Nebraska unsure of conditions?

Yes Drew, I live in a wet state.
What Don Shorr has said, can happen if your mix is mostly peat moss, especially on top. That PM drying is also called "Caking". I personally do not like PM. It is either too wet or dry.
The other issue is COST : For a total volume of 3 cu-yd, if you use i cu-yrd of peat moss , @ $4 per cubit ft, it will cost over 120 bucks. You can buy best quality compos for about $45/ cu-yd. The compost also will have added advantage: It will provide some nutrients and micro herds.

So Ozonemy, can weigh all the options/ suggestions and decide what to do.

ONE MORE THING:
Any new raised bed will need amendments at least for the next couple of seasons until it is established. This is my third year and I am still amending.

NArnold · April 3, 2015

Thanks for your thoughts guys.
The soil were I live is pure clay, mainly because they remove the topsoil when they build residential areas.
April May and the first part of June are usually rainy and cool, but come July through mid Sept it is dry and hot. When I say dry I mean no rain, the day time highs are usually 90 - 105 with high humidity.
I am thinking I want to try topsoil and compost. I need to price some of the other materials first. At the rate the construction is going I probably wont have the beds built until June. I would like to have them filled by June so I can plant a fall crop.

March 30, 2015	#1
NArnold Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: nebraska Posts: 25	Raised Bed Soil Suggestions I am in the process of building some raised beds that I plan to grow vegetables in. What type of soil should I put in them? There will be 4 4'x4'x23" beds and 2 2'x12'x18" beds. My thought was to just get some good top soil and mix with cow manure compost. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks Nick

March 31, 2015	#10
TightenUp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Jersey Posts: 1,183	I'm heading into year 4 of mels mix and I just keep getting better and better results each year. it's an even mixture of peat, vermiculite and compost(consisting of 5 sources). during the compost stage I bought 4 sources and added some homemade compost. if i remember correctly wiggleworm worm castings, cow manure(from box store), vermont compost company manure, chickity doo doo, homemade grass/leaf mold compost and mushroom compost I don't actively compost much so instead of adding compost after each season i just add a layer of manure. twice it was horse manure and once it was rabbit manure. I also have mulched heavily with hay annd wood chips which get turned in after the planting season. Mels mix has a initial cost and work load up front and minimal cost moving forward. I do supplement with a little organic fertilizer but not too much. This 16x4 raised bed kicks a$$ __________________

March 31, 2015	#3
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I prefer garden soil to top soil, but it costs a lot more.

March 31, 2015	#4
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,917	Check with your local nurseries and garden centers. Around here several sell a garden mix or garden compost that they recommend for new gardens. When I expanded an existing bed and added a second one, I was lucky to find one that delivered for free if I bought 3 or more cubic yards, so I was able to really fill them to the top.

March 31, 2015	#5
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Avoid top soil if it has any clay in it. 100% manure is better - just get it 3 months before you plant out.

March 31, 2015	#6
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	To save on costs, fill the bottom 12 inches of them with yard waste, Small sticks, leaves, pine needles, shredded newspaper, shredded cardboard, grass clippings, old straw etc. Wet all of that down really well. Then add more yard waste to bring it up to 14" high. Throw some blood meal and bone meal on it and wet it down again. Fill the rest of it with a mix of compost and potting soil. Or if potting soil is too expensive make your own mix of soil, peat moss and vermiculite. DO NOT add manure unless you are 1000% certain that it has come from animals that have not been fed herbicide treated hay. That stuff stays active through digestion and in its manure and will RUIN your soil. If your manure is safe, do not add it unless it has been well composted.

March 31, 2015	#7
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I had a friend in Colorado just mix up a 3-3-3 mix of compost peat moss and vermiculite. It was too late for me to tell him to put in some sharp sand also. I like compost but if you dont know where it is coming from you can end up with herbicides in it that will kill your tomato plants. Now here is my advice. What ever you do dont expect to see the plants take off like rockets just becuase you mixed all of this stuff up. I did this and it took a good while for me to pull my head out of it and see what the problem was. You need to have what ever soil you add tested for PH. Do it yourself or send it off. Now the hard part for you to believe. Sometimes when people get the test results back it will say PH 6 need to add lime or so forth to bring up PH. This is total BS do not add that lime just to raise PH. Here is the kicker. Tomatoes and just about every other plant you will grow likes and acid soil. (Not a neutral soil). With tomatoes 7 which is neutral is the high limit of PH. Peppers like an even more acid soil. When you build an engine the clearances are lets say nominal 2.500 +or- 0.006. This means you can go 6 thousands bigger or smaller. But the design was for it to be 2.500. The same goes for PH there are lower limits and higher limits. The best performance is in the middle. This area is were the plant can take up nutrients the best. Here is your chance to get it right the first time regardless of what you decide to build it out of. You want it lose even when dry you want it to be able to take up moisture when dry you want it to hold moisture and you want it well drained. You want to be able to use your hand to scoop out soil to plant what ever it is you are planting. Here is a list of things you can use. sharp sand. compost. cotton seed meal. manure. decomposed granite, good dark top soil not garbage and peat moss. I would mix in 50% peat moss to what ever the other stuff was keeping an eye on the PH at all times. Worth

March 31, 2015	#8
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,916	I differ with worth on few things: --peat moss and vermiculite are both too costly to build a 2.5 Cu-yrd And They have no benefit. They both are highly moisture retentive. --- sand is for amending clay soil. AND anything less than 35% has no benefit and it can have negative effects by compacting the soil and making it dense, depriving the roots from air. Instead of above I would add pine/fir bark fine/mulch (natural, not colored), dust size to 1/2". I do this myself. Keep adding pine bark mulch. I buy them $4/ 2 cu-ft . You can buy them cheaper in balk quantity. If you cannot do it for the whole bed, condition the planting holes with pine bark fine. This system/amendment works perfect in our rainy cool PNW. No matter how much it rains, my raised bed would never be soggy It might not be as good in your climate. Like they say: YMMV

March 31, 2015	#11
OzoneNY Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 390	on the water retention point, would that landscaping fabric stuff help with moisture retention if covering the soil with holes in all the right places?

April 3, 2015	#15
NArnold Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: nebraska Posts: 25	Thanks for your thoughts guys. The soil were I live is pure clay, mainly because they remove the topsoil when they build residential areas. April May and the first part of June are usually rainy and cool, but come July through mid Sept it is dry and hot. When I say dry I mean no rain, the day time highs are usually 90 - 105 with high humidity. I am thinking I want to try topsoil and compost. I need to price some of the other materials first. At the rate the construction is going I probably wont have the beds built until June. I would like to have them filled by June so I can plant a fall crop.